Conservatives: give me something to chew on.

Dear Mr. President:
During my shift in the Emergency Room last night, I had the pleasure of evaluating a patient whose smile revealed an expensive shiny gold tooth, whose body was adorned with a wide assortment of elaborate and costly tattoos, who wore a very expensive brand of tennis shoes and who chatted on a new cellular telephone equipped with a popular R&B ringtone.
While glancing over her patient chart, I happened to notice that her payer status was listed as “Medicaid”! During my examination of her, the patient informed me that she smokes more than one costly pack of cigarettes every day and somehow still has money to buy pretzels and beer.
And, you and our Congress expect me to pay for this woman’s health care? I contend that our nation’s “health care crisis” is not the result of a shortage of quality hospitals, doctors or nurses. Rather, it is the result of a “crisis of culture”, a culture in which it is perfectly acceptable to spend money on luxuries and vices while refusing to take care of one’s self or, heaven forbid, purchase health insurance. It is a culture based in the irresponsible credo that “I can do whatever I want to because someone else will always take care of me”.
Once you fix this “culture crisis” that rewards irresponsibility and dependency, you’ll be amazed at how quickly our nation’s health care difficulties will disappear.
Respectfully,
STARNER JONES, MD


Snopes agrees this is authentic.
Originally Posted by Kitschy


Sounds like Dr. Starner Jones took a page right out of Saint Ronald Reagan's playbook: How to hoodwink the American people by playing the Welfare Queen card.

It's inflammatory, and not helpful.
Originally Posted by RedCatWaves
Seriously, this whole thing reads like a parody (esp the bolded).
I worked hard enough to be born to an upper middle-class family. Why couldn't you make the effort to be born to a family of high socioeconomic standing?
only the rich and well-to-do can afford to eat elephant meat Boomy
only the rich and well-to-do can afford to eat elephant meat Boomy
Originally Posted by OBB
But that's the thing...a lot of times it's middle class or lower middle class people I've met who are Republicans/conservative. I understand why some people are conservative (anti-abortion or they benefit directly or indirectly by big business), but I've met way too many people that are conservatie that don't fit this profile. They aren't particularly anti-abortion and they often are barely making ends meet.
Some people, on principle, are conservative because they believe the marketing strategy of the Republican party...that Democrats are stealing from the rich and middle class to give to welfare queens, that the Democrats are "god-less," that the Democrats are somehow anti-American...that Democrats are big spenders while Republicans are not (biggest lie ever about Repubs!!).

I look forward to reading the links again, though. I am just starting to feel better. Yay!!
That's right, I said it! I wear scrunchies!!

I am a sulfate washing, cone slabbing, curly lovin' s.o.b. The CG police haven't caught me yet.


3a/3b
Was able to read the links a little more. I haven't read it all, but I did read some.
Some opinion but nothing to explain why they believed what they believed. Maybe I need to be patient and keep reading.
That's right, I said it! I wear scrunchies!!

I am a sulfate washing, cone slabbing, curly lovin' s.o.b. The CG police haven't caught me yet.


3a/3b
I realize this is old, but I'm bored and reading it has been a great little study break.

If anyone's still reading this, there are specific discrepancies in the across the board conservative mindset that I've always wondered about, and that have come up within this thread, specifically.

I have several conservative friends and, from them as well as from outside sources, I've come to understand the "smaller government" thing as being a fairly staple conservative belief, and one that I personally find attractive. What I cannot make sense of, however is:

1. How does social conservatism jive with the notion that the government needs to be smaller and less-intrusive? It seems contrary to ask for a smaller government, only to turn around and insist that the government get involved in issues that I consider to be extremely personal -- the right to marry being chief amongst them.

and,

2. In the earlier posted letter from the doctor, the (agreed: inflammatory and practically cartoonish) patient is indirectly chastised for the way in which they have spent their money, without any consideration for the circumstances which may have surrounded said expenditures. The argument could be made that if one is living on substantial (though: define "substantial"?) government assistance, one's expenditures are open to criticism, however the "fix" -- since I think it would be untenable to suggest eliminating all forms and facets of social welfare -- would necessarily be oversight which would be a considerable government involvement.

To me, an admittedly rabid social liberal with overarching liberal sympathy, is seems -- and has always seemed -- that conservatives wish for lesser governmental intrusion into activities and programs that they *like*, but increased monitoring and intrusion into activities and programs to which they object.
The argument could be made that if one is living on substantial (though: define "substantial"?) government assistance, one's expenditures are open to criticism, however the "fix" -- since I think it would be untenable to suggest eliminating all forms and facets of social welfare -- would necessarily be oversight which would be a considerable government involvement.
Originally Posted by CurlyToast
I'm not conservative, so I could be wrong, but I think the conservative response to that would be that the “fix” would be to not give them any support in the first place. Period. Cut way back on our social safety net and you eliminate many of the abuses.




Boomy, earlier you asked why so many people who are barely making ends meet are conservative. The answer to that is that they aspire to be wealthy and in their view, if the government would just get out of their way [read: less taxes] it will happen for them that much sooner.

But if their taxes were actually drastically reduced, say, tomorrow, many of them would be shocked to find lots of services they rely upon disappearing as well. It's not really revelatory to say it, but people take things for granted every day. Americans are some of the worst for this, and many American conservatives are the very worst of all.

And even if these conservative folks are not relying on, say, Medicaid, someone down the road from them is and that person would have nowhere to go for healthcare, that person would in turn overburden the private system via ER visits, and everyone would pay even more money to take care of those people. Either that or just let them die [which is already happening].

Is that the kind of society many conservatives want, just letting people die who can't take care of themselves? I don't think so, I don't think they're heartless, but I also don't think many of them realize the repercussions of their viewpoints. The bottom line is we, as a society, pay either way. The real question is, do we want to pay in a rational manner, with a degree of efficiency and foresight, or via some regulation which might slightly curb business growth? Or do we want to wait until something reaches a crisis point and pay 1000x more?

Conservatives want to wait, they want to gamble that all these costs [on Wall Street, in health care, in the Gulf of Mexico because of lack of oil extraction regulation] will never come due. But they always eventually do come due. We've been seeing that a whole lot lately, actually.

I don't think the government should be given free reign, and I don't think it should be an endless stream of money coming their way. I am very much like you, Boomy, in that I want a conservative voice for fiscal constraint, I think that is a strength they bring to the political arena.

But this idea that government should be limited in the extreme is foolish, in my view. The business sector is not self-regulating, they are profit-driven only. The marketplace is not the be-all-end-all of our troubles. There needs to be pressure from another side, representing the people, and that is the government [although don't get me started on corporate influence in government, that's a whole 'nother ball of wax].

Last edited by wild~hair; 06-12-2010 at 01:26 PM.
Good points WH. I think another flaw is the belief that if given the chance people (or businesses) will do the right thing and the government interference is holding them back from doing so already.

If there wasn't social programs, then someone would help those people out if they really needed it. If there wasn't safety regulations and labor laws, then all businesses would still practice safety and treat their employees right.

but unfortunately that's just not the case. Even with all the laws and regulations we have, there's still places breaking them. Even with all the assistance programs, there's still people going without.
Yeah, the articles only reconfirmed all the reasons why I find myself being really... disturbed by conservative thought in general. I've accepted that I will never see eye to eye about political thought but I still have some questions.
Do you find the same general misunderstanding of liberal society?
Do you think that your religious views have a large affect on your political views?
_____________________________________
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Newly Natural
I am so trying to keep an open-mind. My hubby watches FOX news. When I'm in a bad mood, I have no patience for it. However, when I'm in a good mood, I really try to see where they're coming from. I honestly get the "small government" idea. I get it. But it's everything else that just seems either selfish, racist, not-well-thought-out, or hypocritical.

I really really want to try to understand. My husband is so fed up with Democrats. He said this year is the first year he is voting straight ticket Republican. I respect that decision. Each time we have a political discussion, he just spouts out Fox talking points. I truly believe he is brainwashed. I really do. I never said that to him; he would see that as condescending. I don't want to be. I want to understand.

I am not all Democrat...I have moderate views...some conservative, some liberal. Democrats (liberals) are not immune to my criticisms.
Lately (well not lately, for awhile now), I have found Democrats to be the lesser of two evils.
I really think many conservatives would like to go back to the 1950's lifestyle...or at least the 1970's. I really do think they get all nostalgic, forgetting how difficult it was for people of color and for women back then. I think there are a lot of Queen Bee females in the Republican party. No, I didn't say all of them are queen bees...but many are. I think this "mama grizzley" stuff (Sarah Palin and female Tea Partiers) is code for Queen Bee. They're not "fighting for their young." They're fighting for attention of males.
And then again, I find myself disgusted that I'm generalizing them that way. After all, women can have all kind of view points. Nothing wrong with a woman being conservative...I know many...many are my relatives and friends. But there's a little bit of that Queen Bee in many of them, and it drives me crazy.
As much as we've progressed in society as women, there is deep-seated sexism that will probably take another generation or two to "almost die away." I doubt it'll ever completely die away.
That's right, I said it! I wear scrunchies!!

I am a sulfate washing, cone slabbing, curly lovin' s.o.b. The CG police haven't caught me yet.


3a/3b
Boomy, sounds like you've kind of made up your own mind on this one.

I tend to agree with you: I don't see anything terrible about conservative ideals in particular, but they have been practiced differently than they appear on paper.

Instead of keeping government out of people's lives, the Republican party interferes by helping out the rich, increasing income inequality and poverty and destabilizing our economy.

The Republican party interferes by denying people of color, women and homosexuals necessary rights and protections. Of course, they all have some libertarian sense of "equality," but ignores that certain groups require extra protections due to entrenched, ingrained prejudices.

Instead of responsible spending and small government, Republicans have run up the national debt. They want it all, but they don't want to pay for it. If you think Bush was bad, take a look at Regan, poster child for the modern conservative movement—he tripled national debt during his time in office.

Republicans claim to respect the Constitution and the beliefs of the Founding Fathers. But they'll completely disregard the Constitution if they feel it's necessary. What was that Bush 43 had said about the Constitution—"it's just a piece of paper"? But we can ignore all the signing statements, the executive privilege. And let's just try and forget that Reagan and Bush 43 both basically committed high treason.

Maybe the modern Republican party has evolved beyond traditional conservative values. Many conservatives I know believe that to be the case. But it doesn't explain why so many conservatives, including many posters on this board, continue to support this party.
Originally Posted by mandatoryfun

"like"
Dear Mr. President:
During my shift in the Emergency Room last night, I had the pleasure of evaluating a patient whose smile revealed an expensive shiny gold tooth, whose body was adorned with a wide assortment of elaborate and costly tattoos, who wore a very expensive brand of tennis shoes and who chatted on a new cellular telephone equipped with a popular R&B ringtone.
While glancing over her patient chart, I happened to notice that her payer status was listed as “Medicaid”! During my examination of her, the patient informed me that she smokes more than one costly pack of cigarettes every day and somehow still has money to buy pretzels and beer.
And, you and our Congress expect me to pay for this woman’s health care? I contend that our nation’s “health care crisis” is not the result of a shortage of quality hospitals, doctors or nurses. Rather, it is the result of a “crisis of culture”, a culture in which it is perfectly acceptable to spend money on luxuries and vices while refusing to take care of one’s self or, heaven forbid, purchase health insurance. It is a culture based in the irresponsible credo that “I can do whatever I want to because someone else will always take care of me”.
Once you fix this “culture crisis” that rewards irresponsibility and dependency, you’ll be amazed at how quickly our nation’s health care difficulties will disappear.
Respectfully,
STARNER JONES, MD


Snopes agrees this is authentic.
Originally Posted by Kitschy
Wow. This letter is very telling. Painting a lovely picture of what "culture" is causing the crisis. I think mentioning the R&B ring tone was a lovely touch. (can't you get ringtones for free)
Originally Posted by Trenell


Clearly the cell phone and $1.99 ringtone depicts the obvious fact that this person could afford hundreds, to thousands of dollars in medical bills if necessary.
Actually politics is not for me ...
I am a low carb fans, the diet I love most is the Atkins diet plan which is the most popular diet among all low carb diet.
I am so trying to keep an open-mind. My hubby watches FOX news. When I'm in a bad mood, I have no patience for it. However, when I'm in a good mood, I really try to see where they're coming from. I honestly get the "small government" idea. I get it. But it's everything else that just seems either selfish, racist, not-well-thought-out, or hypocritical.

I really really want to try to understand. My husband is so fed up with Democrats. He said this year is the first year he is voting straight ticket Republican. I respect that decision. Each time we have a political discussion, he just spouts out Fox talking points. I truly believe he is brainwashed. I really do. I never said that to him; he would see that as condescending. I don't want to be. I want to understand.
Originally Posted by Boomygrrl
Hi BoomyGirl! It's been a while since I've been on here but I thought I'd check in after all this time.

I think both sides are guilty of this -- thinking that the other side just spouts "talking points" and is "brainwashed." It's insinuating that the person on the other side is just a brainless lemming, or mentally deranged! No wonder the two sides talk past each other and never get anywhere.

I think if we can look someone on the other side of the political spectrum in the eye and consider that it is possible that they are indeed informed, that they are intelligent, and that they have seriously thought through their position on a topic, then we'll be miles ahead. We can have an honest, respectful debate. We can understand each other. We can avoid the polarization.

As I recommended way back when, if you want to (in a bite-sized way) get insight into the logic and thinking of the conservative mind, I'd highly recommend you read Charles Krauthammer's article every week. He's in many Sunday newspapers, or you can find his weekly column online every Friday on many sites. He talks economics, foreign policy, social policy, elections, you name it. If you read it every single week, and bounce it off your husband, you can get some good conversations going. Then hit him with some Maureen Dowd or Thomas Friedman and have a conversation from that angle!
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Last edited by tendrilly; 10-25-2010 at 10:57 AM. Reason: added info
I guess i can take a stab @ explaining where I stand. I'll use bullet points to organize my thoughts.
  • I do believe goverment should back off sometimes, but not how republicans would like. Why should the gov. have a say who who i marry. That should not be up for discussion. Who I fall in love with is no ones business but my own.
  • I am pro-life, because I don't think it is 100% safe for women. I have known several women and some girls who had abortions, and afterward developed all kinds of issues, from infertility, to pain during sex. I know this may not be true for all women who had abortions done, but why risk it? Contraceptions did to be made widely available, adn abstience should not be the only think taught in school.
  • I don't believe in affirmative action, because I don't think it benefits anyone. If you are given something because of your race, sex, age, ect., how is that helping you? I want to earn want i have. If i get the job i know it's because i deserve not my race. I know the doctor operating on me knows what they are doing, and wasn't given a degree because they were a minority.
  • Religion should not play a roll in making laws because there is not one religion. One religion would dictate, no eating pork. Another would say, no meat on fridays. I don't want a law telling me what i can and can't eat (among other things, i'm just trying to make apoint between religions, however bad it may be)
  • This country needs better gun control. I should not be able to go to a gun show and with out proper papers get an automatic rifle. What does anyone need with an uzi? Its not for hunting, unless Bambi is packing heat. No american citizen should have access to automatic weapons.
  • Don't ask, don't tell is the dumbest thing i ever heard of!
  • The Bush administration needs to be tried for world crimes, treason, mass murder, and for just being stupid.
  • The community center, that everyone keeps calling a mosque, should be build and once it is i will be sure to visit.
I hope i answered the question being asked, it's harder then i thought!

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