Immunizations, I don't understand my friend

I have a good friend with a 2 month old baby who is not going to be immunized for reasons I don't agree with. The autism link has been disproven so she can't use that argument but she believes there is a link to depression or other mental illnesses. I have no idea where she got her information. She told me the swine flu shot has "a strain of dementia" in it. I told her that was a load of baloney. Dementia isn't something you can put in a cocktail. Anyway, I believe with so many parents opting not to immumize their children the diseases in question are on the come back, and putting all children at risk. I also believe the information they are going on is mis-information. I don't know what to think. Help me with this one.
the autism link has not been disproven. They do not believe they have adequate findings to determine whether there is or isn't, so they continue to say it does not cause autism.

However, even looking at the ingredients the CDC lists that are in vaccines, there are plenty of known cancer causing chemicals - that are apparently 'ok' in small doses.

But the 'powers that be' will continue to say it's worth it to give a tiny baby whose brain in still rapidly developing, 9 vaccines injected into his/her bloodstream at one time - even though the majority of the diseases in question are practically eradicated, or at least very minimally found.

Whatever her reasons are, they are her reasons, and her children, and she can do whatever she wants. I doubt she's putting her children at very much risk. There are a lot of people who aren't vaccinated and they live very quality lives without bursting into flames.

There are plenty of people who agree strongly with vaccines, and will continue supporting the industry, that these diseases we vax for will continue to be kept away. With the rarity of exposure, the need for constant boosters, and the possibility of the vaccine not working, the individual child who isn't vaccinated, probably has about as much of a chance at getting something as the child who IS vaccinated.

People should be allowed to make this choice as well. I'm less comfortable with the idea of the government forcing me to inject a lab created concoction into my children than I am any other law people get up in arms about.
Her children will probably be protected against the major diseases because of "herd immunity". In other words, because OTHER people have immunized their children, HER children are unlikely to get polio, diptheria, pertussis, etc. If more people start to think like her, though, then her children become more at risk of coming down with those diseases. And those diseases ar killers. We used to lose a LOT of children to those diseases. Her choice. I think she's an idiot, but people are allowed to be idiots.

I do agree that not all immunizations are necessary, and the schedule is a bit too early and full for my comfort (so I slowed it down for my own kids), but there are very few that I think are unnecessary. I want my kids to live to adulthood and not suffer with diseases that can be prevented.
Her children will probably be protected against the major diseases because of "herd immunity". In other words, because OTHER people have immunized their children, HER children are unlikely to get polio, diptheria, pertussis, etc. If more people start to think like her, though, then her children become more at risk of coming down with those diseases. And those diseases ar killers. We used to lose a LOT of children to those diseases. Her choice. I think she's an idiot, but people are allowed to be idiots.

I do agree that not all immunizations are necessary, and the schedule is a bit too early and full for my comfort (so I slowed it down for my own kids), but there are very few that I think are unnecessary. I want my kids to live to adulthood and not suffer with diseases that can be prevented.
Originally Posted by RedCatWaves
I was very on the fence about vaxing when I was pregnant with S...his heart condition made the decision for me.

Yes, you can get sick from the vax, but you can vax responsibly IMHO. You can die from an outbreak (and there have been some in the past few years).

That said, we fully vax at our house (even for ones like flu and chicken pox that I may not feel are nessesary) to protect S as those diseases have the potential to cause serious damage or death to him.



Come swag with me!
IME most parents who say they are anti-vax are really just uncomfortable giving very little babies as many vaccines as the schedule recommends. Most of their kids will get all their vax eventually, by the time school starts to approach. You might want to suggest a delayed schedule to your friend, if you want to say anything at all.

We were just in England where the flawed MMR study had been done and where it had the most impact. Apparently large pockets of the country have lost their herd immunity to mumps and measles and both diseases are on the rise. I didn't realize that vax rates don't have to go down that much, even to 75 percent, to lose herd immunity.

In any case, I didn't vax on schedule but both my kids were fully caught up by age 2.5 which is when they started daycare.


IME most parents who say they are anti-vax are really just uncomfortable giving very little babies as many vaccines as the schedule recommends. Most of their kids will get all their vax eventually, by the time school starts to approach. You might want to suggest a delayed schedule to your friend, if you want to say anything at all.

We were just in England where the flawed MMR study had been done and where it had the most impact. Apparently large pockets of the country have lost their herd immunity to mumps and measles and both diseases are on the rise. I didn't realize that vax rates don't have to go down that much, even to 75 percent, to lose herd immunity.

In any case, I didn't vax on schedule but both my kids were fully caught up by age 2.5 which is when they started daycare.
Originally Posted by mad scientist
Yep.
California (I think around Napa) is currently experience a whooping cough outbreak...one article I read called it an epidemic.
Eres o te haces?
She plans to homeschool and not to immunize at all. I think she believes there is a conspiracy by the government to poison our children. Drives me nuts. The dementia thing really got me. She is young and listening to a bunch of crazies on the internet. She even said she wouldn't give her baby Tylenol when she starts teething because its "unhealthy". I never heard that one before. I think some people take this kind of thing way too far.
She plans to homeschool and not to immunize at all. I think she believes there is a conspiracy by the government to poison our children. Drives me nuts. The dementia thing really got me. She is young and listening to a bunch of crazies on the internet. She even said she wouldn't give her baby Tylenol when she starts teething because its "unhealthy". I never heard that one before. I think some people take this kind of thing way too far.
Originally Posted by poisonivy


People get brainwashed by all sorts of things...internet groups, religions, etc.
IME most parents who say they are anti-vax are really just uncomfortable giving very little babies as many vaccines as the schedule recommends. Most of their kids will get all their vax eventually, by the time school starts to approach. You might want to suggest a delayed schedule to your friend, if you want to say anything at all.

We were just in England where the flawed MMR study had been done and where it had the most impact. Apparently large pockets of the country have lost their herd immunity to mumps and measles and both diseases are on the rise. I didn't realize that vax rates don't have to go down that much, even to 75 percent, to lose herd immunity.

In any case, I didn't vax on schedule but both my kids were fully caught up by age 2.5 which is when they started daycare.
Originally Posted by mad scientist
Yep.
California (I think around Napa) is currently experience a whooping cough outbreak...one article I read called it an epidemic.
Originally Posted by legends

Two of my kids got whopping cough (pertussis) one winter. One was immunized (he was age 10) and one was not (he was a toddler and I had delayed his vaccinations...he's since received all of them). I don't know which kid got it first, but they both got the actual disease (they shared a room). Vaccines are not 100% effective, but they're the best thing we've got, because there really isn't a good treatment for pertussis and kids do still die from it. If you get it, you have to treat it early with antibiotics or else they don't work well later, and the risk of secondary pneumonia (and death) is substantial.
IME most parents who say they are anti-vax are really just uncomfortable giving very little babies as many vaccines as the schedule recommends. Most of their kids will get all their vax eventually, by the time school starts to approach. You might want to suggest a delayed schedule to your friend, if you want to say anything at all.

We were just in England where the flawed MMR study had been done and where it had the most impact. Apparently large pockets of the country have lost their herd immunity to mumps and measles and both diseases are on the rise. I didn't realize that vax rates don't have to go down that much, even to 75 percent, to lose herd immunity.

In any case, I didn't vax on schedule but both my kids were fully caught up by age 2.5 which is when they started daycare.
Originally Posted by mad scientist
Yep.
California (I think around Napa) is currently experience a whooping cough outbreak...one article I read called it an epidemic.
Originally Posted by legends

Two of my kids got whopping cough (pertussis) one winter. One was immunized (he was age 10) and one was not (he was a toddler and I had delayed his vaccinations...he's since received all of them). I don't know which kid got it first, but they both got the actual disease (they shared a room). Vaccines are not 100% effective, but they're the best thing we've got, because there really isn't a good treatment for pertussis and kids do still die from it. If you get it, you have to treat it early with antibiotics or else they don't work well later, and the risk of secondary pneumonia (and death) is substantial.
Originally Posted by RedCatWaves
And isn't it true that immunizations work much better if everybody is vaccinated?
Well ya, thats what the billion dollar corporation called the medical industry will tell you.

Honestly, there's no way to kno if your being given the full truth no matter who gives it. Why would you assume the information she's getting is b.s., but the info the government or media gives you is not?

All companies work because of money. A Pharmaceutical industry is going to try to sell their product as well, and doctors get paid for it too.

The medical industry works on a common denominator system, and not all people have equally common systems. Not to mention they are releasing vaccines that they do not know long term effects of.

I denied my daughter the vax drink of the diarrhea one. Can't remember the name. Started w an R. Anyway, the doctor recommended it of course, but it was like 8 months new (I asked) so I said no. When I got home I found out it was reformulated b/c when they gave it out 8 years earlier, it caused total intestinal shut down in babies. Oops. sorry we destroyed you CHILDREN general public, we'll work on fixing that one.

I know heads of pharmaceutical companies. I know for a FACT that there are medications for b.s. conditions that they make up just to sell some new drug that they made.

I just don't believe they care about the individual person. I don't trust them.
IME most parents who say they are anti-vax are really just uncomfortable giving very little babies as many vaccines as the schedule recommends. Most of their kids will get all their vax eventually, by the time school starts to approach. You might want to suggest a delayed schedule to your friend, if you want to say anything at all.

We were just in England where the flawed MMR study had been done and where it had the most impact. Apparently large pockets of the country have lost their herd immunity to mumps and measles and both diseases are on the rise. I didn't realize that vax rates don't have to go down that much, even to 75 percent, to lose herd immunity.

In any case, I didn't vax on schedule but both my kids were fully caught up by age 2.5 which is when they started daycare.
Originally Posted by mad scientist
Yep.
California (I think around Napa) is currently experience a whooping cough outbreak...one article I read called it an epidemic.
Originally Posted by legends

Two of my kids got whopping cough (pertussis) one winter. One was immunized (he was age 10) and one was not (he was a toddler and I had delayed his vaccinations...he's since received all of them). I don't know which kid got it first, but they both got the actual disease (they shared a room). Vaccines are not 100% effective, but they're the best thing we've got, because there really isn't a good treatment for pertussis and kids do still die from it. If you get it, you have to treat it early with antibiotics or else they don't work well later, and the risk of secondary pneumonia (and death) is substantial.
Originally Posted by RedCatWaves
The pertusis Vax (for whopping cough) only lasts around 10 years...You need a booster just like with the tetnus



Come swag with me!
And isn't it true that immunizations work much better if everybody is vaccinated?
Originally Posted by poisonivy
No vaccine is 100% effective, so the idea is that we reduce the overall occurrence of the disease (ideally eradicate it) through mass immunization. You slow down transmission of the disease which reduces its virulence.

Babywavy, I know we won't agree on this issue. I don't trust the Pharma industry. But I do believe that peer-reviewed scientific publications are for the most part reliable, especially when carried out by public health organizations and non-profits. The evidence is pretty clear that vaccines save lives and reduce the occurrence of fatal childhood diseases. Its also pretty clear that for the vast majority of people, vaccines are totally safe. Its absolutely true that the overall health of society is valued over the health of the individual. But that's not a money-making issue, that's just the very nature of public health.


Mad Scientist - I do not totally disagree with your statement. I think people should continue to do what they feel is right, and if that includes following medical recommendations, I won't argue that.

My stance on the issue comes from a completely emotional place. I can't think of it on a scientific level because I feel I was effected by it personally.

I just believe that I should have a choice.

Most diseases or conditions can be traced to a cause, a genetic thing, a virus, a something. They can't convince me that autism is not vaccine related until they figure out where it comes from.

Cancer was on the rise since Polio vaccinations began. What about Alzheimers? There's no way to know if we're causing these things ourselves.

I don't have the right answer. I really don't. I just fully believe that my child was affected negatively from her vaccinations. I was never against them before, and I fully blame myself for going along with something that could have seriously debilitated her. I am scared at times of my choice to not vaccinate, but I'm more scared of the alternative.
Why would you assume the information she's getting is b.s., but the info the government or media gives you is not?
She said the vaccine had a strain of dementia. Enough said.

I do completely agree with you that vaccines should be a choice, and no one should have to jump through hoops to avoid getting them.

I also agree that babies and children are given way to many vaccines...the chicken pox vaccine is completely ridiculous in all but a few cases.
Eres o te haces?
Why would you assume the information she's getting is b.s., but the info the government or media gives you is not?
She said the vaccine had a strain of dementia. Enough said.

I do completely agree with you that vaccines should be a choice, and no one should have to jump through hoops to avoid getting them.

I also agree that babies and children are given way to many vaccines...the chicken pox vaccine is completely ridiculous in all but a few cases.
Originally Posted by legends


haha, yes, she was a little misled on that one. I totally agree.

I was just trying to make the point that people should be cautious of EVERYTHING they hear. We're taught to trust certain 'people of authority' and some people just do that blindly. We really need to be advocates of our own health.

Maybe she read somewhere that vaccines could CAUSE dementia. I dunno.


I certainly do not have the education and the information to say what is supposed to be done. But I do have the common sense to know that some things just aren't right. And I don't think they should do away with vaccinations, because they obviously do work.

BUT there needs to be something done about the amount we give to children who are in the process of brain development, for pete's sake.

And I also believe that every persons body is different, so maybe some tests need to be done on individuals blood work to find out if they are able to be vaccinated without having a very bad reaction.

Again, I don't have the fool proof answer, just throwing out ideas.
Yep.
California (I think around Napa) is currently experience a whooping cough outbreak...one article I read called it an epidemic.
Originally Posted by legends

Two of my kids got whopping cough (pertussis) one winter. One was immunized (he was age 10) and one was not (he was a toddler and I had delayed his vaccinations...he's since received all of them). I don't know which kid got it first, but they both got the actual disease (they shared a room). Vaccines are not 100% effective, but they're the best thing we've got, because there really isn't a good treatment for pertussis and kids do still die from it. If you get it, you have to treat it early with antibiotics or else they don't work well later, and the risk of secondary pneumonia (and death) is substantial.
Originally Posted by RedCatWaves
The pertusis Vax (for whopping cough) only lasts around 10 years...You need a booster just like with the tetnus
Originally Posted by deezee02

He had had a booster at age 5, just before starting school, so he should still have been protected at age 10.
Babywavy - I do agree that you (and I) as parents should ultimately have the final say in what our children receive. Like you said, public health is about the general population and statistics, not about the individual, so we need to advocate for our own children.

I just personally don't see the basis for conspiracy theories. There have been a lot of changes to our environment in the last couple of generations: our food (my BIG concern), the prevalence plastics, air pollution etc... all of which are ingested in larger quantities than the ingredients in a vaccination shot and none of which that have been tested as rigorously as vaccines have. I definitely trust public health vaccination programs more than I trust McDonalds or Proctor and Gamble or BP.


Babywavy - I do agree that you (and I) as parents should ultimately have the final say in what our children receive. Like you said, public health is about the general population and statistics, not about the individual, so we need to advocate for our own children.

I just personally don't see the basis for conspiracy theories. There have been a lot of changes to our environment in the last couple of generations: our food (my BIG concern), the prevalence plastics, air pollution etc... all of which are ingested in larger quantities than the ingredients in a vaccination shot and none of which that have been tested as rigorously as vaccines have. I definitely trust public health vaccination programs more than I trust McDonalds or Proctor and Gamble or BP.
Originally Posted by mad scientist

I agree with the other concerns as well. But none of those are injected into your body.

Not to mention, the FDA wouldn't allow the kinds of chemicals in our food that are allowed as preservatives in vaccines. - not that I'm defending the issues you brought up with other environmental factors.

I don't want to believe there could be something to the conspiracy theories - but honestly, if they knew there was a link to vaccines and autism (or other issues), they would weigh the pros and cons. If they felt the percentage of disease protection outweighed the percentage of autism cases, they would allow it to happen.

I personally am a big conspiracy theorist. I joke around a bit b/c sometimes I take it to the extreme on a hypothetical level - but often times I do believe we're sheep, and we're easily convinced, so we're often lied to.

In another words. If there WAS a problem, they probably wouldn't tell us anyway.
Mad Scientist - I do not totally disagree with your statement. I think people should continue to do what they feel is right, and if that includes following medical recommendations, I won't argue that.

My stance on the issue comes from a completely emotional place. I can't think of it on a scientific level because I feel I was effected by it personally.

I just believe that I should have a choice.

Most diseases or conditions can be traced to a cause, a genetic thing, a virus, a something. They can't convince me that autism is not vaccine related until they figure out where it comes from.

Cancer was on the rise since Polio vaccinations began. What about Alzheimers? There's no way to know if we're causing these things ourselves.

I don't have the right answer. I really don't. I just fully believe that my child was affected negatively from her vaccinations. I was never against them before, and I fully blame myself for going along with something that could have seriously debilitated her. I am scared at times of my choice to not vaccinate, but I'm more scared of the alternative.
Originally Posted by iroc


People have always gotten cancer and alzheimers. History is full of accounts of cancer-related illness and death and alzheimers-related dementia, but they didn't know it was cancer/alzheimers at the time. The reason we see more of it today is probably because people live longer. Cancer/alzheimers tend to be old-person-diseases, so when you have more old people...you have more cancer/alzheimers.

My guess is people have always had autism as well. I know that while I was growing up, I attended school with several children who were mainstreamed, but who probably should have been in special schools, because they definitely would be diagnosed with autism today. I think autism is just a variation of normal and there probably isn't one specific cause for it.

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