OB handing out formula samples -WWYD?

formula isn't a demon product.

i'm an advocate for women doing what's best for their situation. and i hate for mothers who use formula to feel that they are being measured up by others who didn't choose formula. that's what's wrong. and i just don't believe that there are women who are making formula choices because no one informed them about breastmilk, when they could so easily have educated themselves. you can check out books and videos for free at the library. it ain't rocket science.
Originally Posted by rainshower
ITA - there are far more pressing parenting issues than breastfeeding versus formula feeding.

DS has had about 1 1/2 tablespoons of formula his entire life - that was on the second day in the hospital and my milk hadn't come in. Do I feel badly about that...not a bit!

Also, pumping doesn't always come easily to all women - so stockpilling EBM isn't always possible. I found pumping to be difficult and time consuming...time I'd rather spend cuddling my sweet boy. That being said, had I been more successful at pumping - I would have had a stockpile of EBM.
Long, blonde, 3a/mostly b hair.


formula isn't a demon product.

i'm an advocate for women doing what's best for their situation. and i hate for mothers who use formula to feel that they are being measured up by others who didn't choose formula. that's what's wrong. and i just don't believe that there are women who are making formula choices because no one informed them about breastmilk, when they could so easily have educated themselves. you can check out books and videos for free at the library. it ain't rocket science.
Originally Posted by rainshower
No one's saying it's a demon product. We're saying the medical and formula industries work together to undermine breastfeeding because it translates to profit for them.

Formula isn't evil but we all know it's inferior, health wise, for both mother and baby. So given that we know that, should doctors be pushing it to everyone, or saving it for the moms and babies that actually need it?

And I can personally vouch that not everyone is truly informed about breast milk. I can attest to that from working in L&D. I can attest to that just from reading the baby boards on TheNest.com and the misinformation people post about breastfeeding. Just the other day someone posted that she wasn't going to breastfeed because now they make formula that's just as good as breast milk.

a friend who i gave my formula samples to resorted to formula after her baby self-weaned at 6 months. though they were samples, she came to like that brand, and that's what she ended up giving him.

there are also lots of mothers who only plan to breastfeed during maternity leave, with no desire to pump at after returning to work (2 of my nieces, a friend, a few colleagues). so they had to have formula brands in mind. there are also mothers who stay at home and also have no plans to breastfeed beyond the first month or two before transitioning to formula.

there are also lots of mothers who naturally don't produce an abundant amount of milk, and who supplement with formula.

now maybe the way the nurse gave you the bag of formula put you off. maybe she could have been more professional. maybe she shouldn't have assumed that you'd want to take advantage of the samples. that's an issue with her bedside manner moreso than with formula itself.

formula isn't a demon product.

i'm an advocate for women doing what's best for their situation. and i hate for mothers who use formula to feel that they are being measured up by others who didn't choose formula. that's what's wrong. and i just don't believe that there are women who are making formula choices because no one informed them about breastmilk, when they could so easily have educated themselves. you can check out books and videos for free at the library. it ain't rocket science.
Originally Posted by rainshower
To address your points:

a) it is rare for a child to self-wean at 6 months. Self-weaning rarely happens before around age 2. At 6 months, some kids are teething or become more distractible or temporarily fussy or perhaps the mother's hormones are shifting to a return to fertility and it can make it seem like they are self-weaning, but they usually work through that and want to nurse again. JJ was like that a couple of weeks ago, where he would scream every time he saw the nipple, but he wasn't self-weaning. But if the formula samples are there and the mother starts using them, that isn't going to happen. To me, that's precisely one of the reasons NOT to have a sample in the first place and to try to work through the breast feeding issues (of course, if the person doesn't know about this, they can't do so, which comes back to education and support.)

b) if people are planning to BF a short time and then do formula, they don't need the formula before the baby is even born - they have time to make sure that that is what they really want after they have experienced BF and they have time to get their formula later if they still decide to go that way. Having the formula around probably further shortens the amount of time that they BF.

c) same for those who don't have enough milk and need to supplement... IF this is determined to be the case, they can get the formula THEN (and getting out with a baby can be hard, so they can send someone for it or order it or whatever. It's not like the samples last that long anyway, so they'd still have to do that eventually.) Very few people truly don't have enough milk (a lot less than are led to believe it) so EVERYONE does not need formula samples in case of a minority occurrence. And personally, I would look for a milk bank or donor if that happened to me before I would do formula - but formula has become the default backup or the only backup people talk about, when there are other choices.

d) yes, formula is a bad product in MOST cases. Unless there is a situation where a child absolutely cannot have access to breast milk for serious medical or physical limitations on the part of the child or mother, or the child is in the care of social services or someone other than the mother who cannot nurse it, or some other such situation, then formula is an inferior product - but the formula companies have convinced us all otherwise. That's like saying that if someone had serious food allergies to everything except junk food and carbs that could not be cured, and if they ever ate a veggie, fruit or anything fresh, they would die, and so they had a diet of junk food and carbs and took vitamin supplements, that there was nothing wrong with that. Well yes there is - they are eating inferior, bad food. They are doing it because it is that or die and it is the only choice they have, but it's not something anyone should choose to do if they are able to eat better foods and there is no point saying it's just as good as the better food or promoting it as an option for others.

e) as in the article I posted, it's not about mothers feeling guilty or like bad mothers or that they don't measure up or that BF mothers are superior - not at all. It IS about babies being cheated of something that benefits them and that they need - and mothers should be angry that they are being cheated that way. And while there is information in libraries and on line etc. many people do not know to look for it... and as someone said upthread, trying to get BF info out against the formula companies' advertising is like David against Goliath. If you look at those Bringing home Baby shows on TLC, they usually make it seem like every birth is this agonizing thing filled with complications and interventions and every mother has problems BF and ends up giving a bottle... and there are tons of Nestle ads on the show... that's the kind of stuff most women are exposed to every day, so one book on BF cannot counter all that, and an O/B giving out formula certainly does not help.
Get used to me. Black, confident, cocky; my name, not yours; my religion, not yours; my goals, my own; get used to me. -Muhammad Ali












formula isn't a demon product.

i'm an advocate for women doing what's best for their situation. and i hate for mothers who use formula to feel that they are being measured up by others who didn't choose formula. that's what's wrong. and i just don't believe that there are women who are making formula choices because no one informed them about breastmilk, when they could so easily have educated themselves. you can check out books and videos for free at the library. it ain't rocket science.
Originally Posted by rainshower
No one's saying it's a demon product. We're saying the medical and formula industries work together to undermine breastfeeding because it translates to profit for them.

Formula isn't evil but we all know it's inferior, health wise, for both mother and baby. So given that we know that, should doctors be pushing it to everyone, or saving it for the moms and babies that actually need it?

And I can personally vouch that not everyone is truly informed about breast milk. I can attest to that from working in L&D. I can attest to that just from reading the baby boards on TheNest.com and the misinformation people post about breastfeeding. Just the other day someone posted that she wasn't going to breastfeed because now they make formula that's just as good as breast milk.
Originally Posted by iris427
I think it is a product that has important but limited uses when used appropriately, but which has been marketed and therefore used completely inappropriately so that it is now a product that causes a lot of harm.

It IS a demon product when Nestle is dressing up women as fake nurses to go into developing countries and convince poor women to try it.... and gives it out free until their supply dries up...then stop giving out the free samples, but the women have no milk so they have to buy it...but they are poor so they try to water it down...and the water has water-borne parasites and the babies don't get enough to eat so infant mortality goes up...but Nestle is such a rich company that they pressure nations such as the US not to sign the UN's international breast milk convention for years and years... yes it is.
Get used to me. Black, confident, cocky; my name, not yours; my religion, not yours; my goals, my own; get used to me. -Muhammad Ali











a friend who i gave my formula samples to resorted to formula after her baby self-weaned at 6 months. though they were samples, she came to like that brand, and that's what she ended up giving him.

there are also lots of mothers who only plan to breastfeed during maternity leave, with no desire to pump at after returning to work (2 of my nieces, a friend, a few colleagues). so they had to have formula brands in mind. there are also mothers who stay at home and also have no plans to breastfeed beyond the first month or two before transitioning to formula.

there are also lots of mothers who naturally don't produce an abundant amount of milk, and who supplement with formula.

now maybe the way the nurse gave you the bag of formula put you off. maybe she could have been more professional. maybe she shouldn't have assumed that you'd want to take advantage of the samples. that's an issue with her bedside manner moreso than with formula itself.

formula isn't a demon product.

i'm an advocate for women doing what's best for their situation. and i hate for mothers who use formula to feel that they are being measured up by others who didn't choose formula. that's what's wrong. and i just don't believe that there are women who are making formula choices because no one informed them about breastmilk, when they could so easily have educated themselves. you can check out books and videos for free at the library. it ain't rocket science.
Originally Posted by rainshower
To address your points:

a) it is rare for a child to self-wean at 6 months. Self-weaning rarely happens before around age 2. At 6 months, some kids are teething or become more distractible or temporarily fussy or perhaps the mother's hormones are shifting to a return to fertility and it can make it seem like they are self-weaning, but they usually work through that and want to nurse again.


c) And personally, I would look for a milk bank or donor if that happened to me before I would do formula - but formula has become the default backup or the only backup people talk about, when there are other choices.
Originally Posted by Amneris
I do believe that each child self-weans at their own rate -and comments like 'it is rare' can make breastfeeding mothers feel inadequate about the care they provide their children. My friend's DD weaned herself at 10 months. My DS self-weaned at 16 months. Even when we take baths or showers together - he has no interest in my breasts. That being said - both our children will still put their hands down our shirts when we are comforting them.

Also, as for milk banks - those are few and far between up here in Canada. I think Today's Parent did an article a few months ago about milk banks in Canada. I think there's one in BC that caters mostly to premmies. There's one somewhere else, but I can't remember where.
Long, blonde, 3a/mostly b hair.


formula isn't a demon product.

i'm an advocate for women doing what's best for their situation. and i hate for mothers who use formula to feel that they are being measured up by others who didn't choose formula. that's what's wrong. and i just don't believe that there are women who are making formula choices because no one informed them about breastmilk, when they could so easily have educated themselves. you can check out books and videos for free at the library. it ain't rocket science.
Originally Posted by rainshower
No one's saying it's a demon product. We're saying the medical and formula industries work together to undermine breastfeeding because it translates to profit for them.

Formula isn't evil but we all know it's inferior, health wise, for both mother and baby. So given that we know that, should doctors be pushing it to everyone, or saving it for the moms and babies that actually need it?

And I can personally vouch that not everyone is truly informed about breast milk. I can attest to that from working in L&D. I can attest to that just from reading the baby boards on TheNest.com and the misinformation people post about breastfeeding. Just the other day someone posted that she wasn't going to breastfeed because now they make formula that's just as good as breast milk.
Originally Posted by iris427
I think it is a product that has important but limited uses when used appropriately, but which has been marketed and therefore used completely inappropriately so that it is now a product that causes a lot of harm.

It IS a demon product when Nestle is dressing up women as fake nurses to go into developing countries and convince poor women to try it.... and gives it out free until their supply dries up...then stop giving out the free samples, but the women have no milk so they have to buy it...but they are poor so they try to water it down...and the water has water-borne parasites and the babies don't get enough to eat so infant mortality goes up...but Nestle is such a rich company that they pressure nations such as the US not to sign the UN's international breast milk convention for years and years... yes it is.
Originally Posted by Amneris
Wow, I didn't know about that. That is just terrible. I agree, that does fit my criteria for demonic.

I agree with your first paragraph here too. I'm not sure why people deny that formula causes harm when used so widely. We know infant mortality is higher among formula-fed babies. We know they get sicker more often and for longer/more seriously than breastfed babies. If that doesn't constitute harm, then what does?

And of course, you have the usual issues of race and socioeconomic factors tied in with formula use.

now maybe the way the nurse gave you the bag of formula put you off. maybe she could have been more professional. maybe she shouldn't have assumed that you'd want to take advantage of the samples. that's an issue with her bedside manner moreso than with formula itself.

formula isn't a demon product.

i'm an advocate for women doing what's best for their situation. and i hate for mothers who use formula to feel that they are being measured up by others who didn't choose formula. that's what's wrong. and i just don't believe that there are women who are making formula choices because no one informed them about breastmilk, when they could so easily have educated themselves. you can check out books and videos for free at the library. it ain't rocket science.
Originally Posted by rainshower
I already said I had an issue with HOW it was handed out. There are no materials about breastfeeding lying around the office, it was never discussed with me, I wasn't given any breastfeeding literature or free nursing pads, I was given a can of formula. I know that this is because the formula companies have the money to hand out samples and do aggressive marketing through medical offices while there is no breastfeeding "industry" with comparable resources. But not every woman knows that.
It's amazing the amount of misinformation about breastfeeding out there, too. From "formula is just as good" to "breastmilk does not have enough iron so you have to supplement" to "there are no benefits to breastfeeding after (insert ridiculously short amount of time here)" to "breastfeeding ruins your boobs".
To Trenell, MizKerri and geeky:
I pray none of you ever has to live in a communist state.

Geeky is my hero. She's the true badass. The badass who doesn't even need to be a badass. There aren't enough O's in cool to describe her.
a friend who i gave my formula samples to resorted to formula after her baby self-weaned at 6 months. though they were samples, she came to like that brand, and that's what she ended up giving him.

there are also lots of mothers who only plan to breastfeed during maternity leave, with no desire to pump at after returning to work (2 of my nieces, a friend, a few colleagues). so they had to have formula brands in mind. there are also mothers who stay at home and also have no plans to breastfeed beyond the first month or two before transitioning to formula.

there are also lots of mothers who naturally don't produce an abundant amount of milk, and who supplement with formula.

now maybe the way the nurse gave you the bag of formula put you off. maybe she could have been more professional. maybe she shouldn't have assumed that you'd want to take advantage of the samples. that's an issue with her bedside manner moreso than with formula itself.

formula isn't a demon product.

i'm an advocate for women doing what's best for their situation. and i hate for mothers who use formula to feel that they are being measured up by others who didn't choose formula. that's what's wrong. and i just don't believe that there are women who are making formula choices because no one informed them about breastmilk, when they could so easily have educated themselves. you can check out books and videos for free at the library. it ain't rocket science.
Originally Posted by rainshower
To address your points:

a) it is rare for a child to self-wean at 6 months. Self-weaning rarely happens before around age 2. At 6 months, some kids are teething or become more distractible or temporarily fussy or perhaps the mother's hormones are shifting to a return to fertility and it can make it seem like they are self-weaning, but they usually work through that and want to nurse again.


c) And personally, I would look for a milk bank or donor if that happened to me before I would do formula - but formula has become the default backup or the only backup people talk about, when there are other choices.
Originally Posted by Amneris
I do believe that each child self-weans at their own rate -and comments like 'it is rare' can make breastfeeding mothers feel inadequate about the care they provide their children. My friend's DD weaned herself at 10 months. My DS self-weaned at 16 months. Even when we take baths or showers together - he has no interest in my breasts. That being said - both our children will still put their hands down our shirts when we are comforting them.

Also, as for milk banks - those are few and far between up here in Canada. I think Today's Parent did an article a few months ago about milk banks in Canada. I think there's one in BC that caters mostly to premmies. There's one somewhere else, but I can't remember where.
Originally Posted by curly_keltie
Yes, there should be more milk banks.

I donate my extra milk (I have so much I might as well) to a mother that I know who has a lot of problems with supply. I manually express and JJ and I walk what we have over to their house every day or two, and she uses what milk she has and supplements with formula through a tube next to her nipples. I guess if I were in her shoes, I'd look to someone to do the same for me.

Again, I don't think the self-weaning thing, or any other information, is intended to make anyone feel inadequate. I wish we women were not so quick to do that to ourselves (the article I posted covered that.) It's just that it's important to have correct information. I have had people tell me that JJ is weaning or wants to wean or that once he gets teeth, he will wean...because so many people believe that, so it is important to me to find out if things like that are really true. Here's what kellymom says about self-weaning:
http://www.kellymom.com/bf/weaning/babyselfwean.html
Get used to me. Black, confident, cocky; my name, not yours; my religion, not yours; my goals, my own; get used to me. -Muhammad Ali











formula isn't a demon product.

i'm an advocate for women doing what's best for their situation. and i hate for mothers who use formula to feel that they are being measured up by others who didn't choose formula. that's what's wrong. and i just don't believe that there are women who are making formula choices because no one informed them about breastmilk, when they could so easily have educated themselves. you can check out books and videos for free at the library. it ain't rocket science.
Originally Posted by rainshower
ITA - there are far more pressing parenting issues than breastfeeding versus formula feeding.

DS has had about 1 1/2 tablespoons of formula his entire life - that was on the second day in the hospital and my milk hadn't come in. Do I feel badly about that...not a bit!

Also, pumping doesn't always come easily to all women - so stockpilling EBM isn't always possible. I found pumping to be difficult and time consuming...time I'd rather spend cuddling my sweet boy. That being said, had I been more successful at pumping - I would have had a stockpile of EBM.
Originally Posted by curly_keltie
Actually, I think this is the most pressing, apart from child abuse and neglect, children living in poverty with poor medical care and educations, etc. (and it can counteract all of those, so in a way, it IS the most pressing.)
Get used to me. Black, confident, cocky; my name, not yours; my religion, not yours; my goals, my own; get used to me. -Muhammad Ali












Last edited by Amneris; 02-01-2008 at 10:41 AM.
a) it is rare for a child to self-wean at 6 months. Self-weaning rarely happens before around age 2.

I do agree that self-weaning doesn't really happen at 6 months old. That's more likely a nursing strike. But, IMO, legitimate self-weaning can happen before age 2. Anytime between 12 and 36 months seems reasonable.
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i definitely believe my friend is more of an expert on her child than other people. so i take her word for it. he wasn't teething. he wasn't sick. she wasn't sick. her diet hadn't changed. she was producing an abundance of milk, which made his weaning even more uncomfortable for her because she was painfully engorged. he didn't want her breast, but he needed to eat.

and she had returned to work, which limited the amount of time she could invest in experimenting with different measures to see if he would return to her breasts. he had to eat. she couldn't afford the costly breast pumps, and the cheaper ones that she could afford (she tried 2) didn't work.

everything isn't so black and white.

and i failed to mention above the many women who have jobs that don't give them the liberty to leave their workstations periodically to pump when they need to. this is a very common and very real consideration in why women breastfeed for just the first few months, generally the time they are on maternity leave.
"Dogs stink too, but I like dog stink." ~ rileyb
i definitely believe my friend is more of an expert on her child than other people. so i take her word for it. he wasn't teething. he wasn't sick. she wasn't sick. her diet hadn't changed. she was producing an abundance of milk, which made his weaning even more uncomfortable for her because she was painfully engorged. he didn't want her breast, but he needed to eat.

and she had returned to work, which limited the amount of time she could invest in experimenting with different measures to see if he would return to her breasts. he had to eat.

everything isn't so black and white.

and i failed to mention above the many women who have jobs that don't give them the liberty to leave their workstations periodically to pump when they need to. this is a very common and very real consideration in why women breastfeed for just the first few months, generally the time they are on maternity leave.
Originally Posted by rainshower
Poor maternity leaves/people needing to work/poor accomodation of pumping is definitely a huge part of the problem.... but I still don't see those as justification for handing formula to expectant mothers, especially if they DO plan to BF for a few months. They should be encouraged in THAT, and given information about their right to pump, how to keep supply up, etc. NOT formula.
Get used to me. Black, confident, cocky; my name, not yours; my religion, not yours; my goals, my own; get used to me. -Muhammad Ali











Poor maternity leaves/people needing to work/poor accomodation of pumping is definitely a huge part of the problem.... but I still don't see those as justification for handing formula to expectant mothers, especially if they DO plan to BF for a few months. They should be encouraged in THAT, and given information about their right to pump, how to keep supply up, etc. NOT formula.
Originally Posted by Amneris
do you think that is the experience of MOST women in OB offices? and i guess this question could be open to everyone, not just amneris.
i hated my OB (him personally, the office staff, nurses, etc were wonderful) but when it actually came time to deliver a different, absoultely wonderful doctor delivered majerle.
my OB asked me ahead of time if i was going to breast or formula feed. and i did make a birth plan, but i never needed it because the hospital staff was wonderful. and even though while in the hospital i used formula, the nurses provided me with a pump and encouraged me to pump to get things going. they had a lactician consultant who visited all the new mothers, gave me plenty of info about breastfeeding, etc.
even before my child was born i was given numerous amounts of literature and information about breastfeeding and LLL. i simply cant relate to all the horror stories of a hospital birth or OBs vs midwifes etc etc.
is that uncommon?????
Poor maternity leaves/people needing to work/poor accomodation of pumping is definitely a huge part of the problem.... but I still don't see those as justification for handing formula to expectant mothers, especially if they DO plan to BF for a few months. They should be encouraged in THAT, and given information about their right to pump, how to keep supply up, etc. NOT formula.
Originally Posted by Amneris
do you think that is the experience of MOST women in OB offices? and i guess this question could be open to everyone, not just amneris.
i hated my OB (him personally, the office staff, nurses, etc were wonderful) but when it actually came time to deliver a different, absoultely wonderful doctor delivered majerle.
my OB asked me ahead of time if i was going to breast or formula feed. and i did make a birth plan, but i never needed it because the hospital staff was wonderful. and even though while in the hospital i used formula, the nurses provided me with a pump and encouraged me to pump to get things going. they had a lactician consultant who visited all the new mothers, gave me plenty of info about breastfeeding, etc.
even before my child was born i was given numerous amounts of literature and information about breastfeeding and LLL. i simply cant relate to all the horror stories of a hospital birth or OBs vs midwifes etc etc.
is that uncommon?????
Originally Posted by subbrock
I think it varies. I chose a hospital that promoted rooming-in, dad being present and sleeping there, had people trained in BF, etc. and I did not mind my hospital birth. It was natural and intervention-free. That being said, I did a lot of my own research and delayed going there as long as possible. There could have been some things that were better, but overall it was OK, and I think it is possible to have a good hospital birth BUT it requires a particular kind of hospital and/or an involved woman (and her partner and support people.) I too was encouraged to BF in the hospital, but my O/B had given me the formula in her office and prior to having the baby, Nestle were at the hospital tour, so again, room for improvement.
Get used to me. Black, confident, cocky; my name, not yours; my religion, not yours; my goals, my own; get used to me. -Muhammad Ali











I think a letter is a bit much. If someone gave you a shirt in a size too bigm would you get mad at them for thinking you were bigger than you are? I would think of it as a JIC thign also. like, just in case something happened (God forbid), your baby woudln't go hungry. I mean, it's not like they signed you up for a case of the stuff- it's just a small sample! I thought it was thoughtful even though I was breastfeeding at the time. My gift bag came with a sample of formula, lotion, diaper rash cream, mittons and a Little Golden Book. It's not like the hospital is selling the formula and trying to sell it to you. They benefit nothing from whichever you choose to feed your baby. It was just a free sample. Maybe they should ask if you WOULD LIKE a free sample from now on so as not to offend some people???
Originally Posted by shelli
Lots of doctors are guilty of accepting kickbacks from the pharmaceutical companies to push certain drugs and products on the patient. That's where the "free samples" come from...pharm sales reps whose jobs is it to entice doctors to prescribe the stuff en masse.

And, less obviously, it was pretty standard for for-profit entities to sponsor and present information given to physicians at professional conferences. Now (as of just very recently), everyone who presents at medical seminars, etc., has to sign a release, naming their employer and who is paying them to present and who has provided the information they're presenting.
Originally Posted by spiderlashes5000
But I delivered overseas in a military hospital. The Drs don't have pharm. reps / formula companies coming buying them steak dinners over here. They just get paid their paycheck like everyone else.
A closed mind is a wonderful thing to lose.

"...you could have a turd on your head and no one would notice."~Subbrock

"I had an imaginary puppy, but my grandpa ate him."~Bailey
I delivered at the hospital considered to be the most family friendly in Manhattan - and while the L&D area was wonderful, the post partum floor was an entirely different experience. They had no real lactation consultants, only poorly trained nurses who made me cry by telling me I was starving my baby, and that if my milk hadn't come in by then (the day after my surgery), it probably wasn't going to and that I should give up on breastfeeding. I was so stressed out and anxious, I'm sure this had something to do with how long it took my milk to come in - I've never cried so much in my life. They actively tried to undermine breastfeeding for me and I'm so glad I stuck with it. I've gotten so much more support from my son's pediatrician than those evil witches who were supposed to be "lactation consultants." Unfortunately, I think it goes a lot deeper than the bags.
Originally Posted by velvet paws
This is apalling. It's my understanding that it's normal to take around 5 days for milk to come in, and that the newborn is perfectly fine on colostrum until then. Solomon was born on a Tuesday and the nurses/lactation consultants told me my milk would probably come in on Saturday or Sunday, which is exactly when it did.
Faith, 3Aish redhead
Mama to two wild superheroes and a curly-headed baby boy
Amneris - I totally agree that Canada needs more milk banks. At one point - I think there were more. After the Red Cross Blood Services scandal - people were apprehensive and many milk banks shut down.

That is so awesome that you are donating to someone in need! Pumping is a lot of work and that's so good that you are doing for someone else.

I wish I could find that article online.
Long, blonde, 3a/mostly b hair.

it took me about 4 days both times before my milk came in too. Both Ian and Ryan did great on colostrum and I remembered that this was their immunological boost at the beginning of life so the longer that lasted the better.

subbrock I definitely think your experience is unique. Doctors and nurses pay a lot of lip service to "breast is best" but then without realizing it sabotage the nursing relationship with their practices. I remember a very pregnant pediatric nurse telling me that she was going to check Ryan's glucose levels (right after he was born) and then TELLING me that if they were too low she'd give him glucose water. I said no. She looked at me all bug eyed, I repeated, "no I will nurse him". "But he'll need the sugar water" and then I rattled off what I knew would be better for him (and me too in having my milk supply established early on) and reiterated if his sugar levels were truly low my 7lb 11oz baby would be nursed thank you very much.

This was a very progressive hospital. Other hospitals have moms pleading nurses to get the baby to feed because their boobs are so sore only to have nurses conveniently "forget" or outright tell them they should wait longer. Hospital staff that convince a weary father that the baby needs a bottle of formula while mom is recuping from the c section (instead of waiting a bit and letting a hungry baby meet a willing to nurse mom), or staff that despite the parents' wishes put a paci into a baby's mouth.

Last edited by marielle448; 02-02-2008 at 01:51 AM.
Subbrock, I've often been thinking along the same lines as you.

The only negative experiences I have heard with regards to BFing, in a medical or social setting, have been from ladies on the web. Its never happened to me in real life or to anyone that I know of. I've nursed anywhere and everywhere with no issues and I've felt very satisfied (if not a little harrassed) by the breastfeeding support that I got from my medical caregivers. Maybe I've not noticed the negative stuff because it didn't impact me.

But I wonder if this is a demographic/regional issue. Canada does seem to be more pro-BF than the US and when I lived in the US, I was in California which was pro-BF even 35 years ago when my Mom had me there. And I come from an immigrant family so BFing is the norm amongst the older the generation.

It makes me sad to know that things are different elsewhere.


When I was a FTM, they gave me one of those bags. My mind was all ready made up that I was going to try bf'ing for a year, but having that small sample there was kind of my security blanket if for whatever reason, bf'ing didn't go as planned when I got home. I didn't have that great of a support system around me, as my mom was the last person I knew (personally) that had bf'ed. And, LLL wasn't something that anyone suggested to me when I was pregnant. So, it didn't bother me that I got some for free. My OB asked when I was pregnant if I planned on breastfeeding, etc. and they gave me the sample anyways.

I can totally see how it can be seen as endorsing formula over bf'ing. If you feel that strongly about it, yes, write both the OB and the Sr. OB and let them know that you are concerned about their endorsement of formula over bf'ing.

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