2C/3A fine/low por - want to try PT?

Like Tree20Likes

I think you're right about the oils. I really think they're the main problem. I'm going to look into the experiences of other people with aloe vera (I have an exam in a few hours so no time beforehand).

Next time I'm going to wash my hair with just shampoo and use just the Curl Queen gel as my styler. I think that's the easiest way to see what influence all the oils have on my hair. I still have a little more than half of the conditioner left and almost everything from CCCL since I got that one just last Saturday and used only three little blobs. Hope they can go on the swap boards 'cause they were quite expensive and I think it's a waste to just not use them (also because I don't have money right now to buy anything new).
bosanbo likes this.
F - LP - HD - NE
Fine, low porosity, high density, normal elasticity
Hairtype 2c

Low poo: Weleda Oat Replenishing Shampoo
Protein: IAGirl's gelatine treatment
Detangler & LI: KCKT
Styling: KCCC

Beauty Is Not a Number
Great thread and advice! My hair sounds similar to yours, bosanbo. Except i have curls on the bottom layers and my top is struggling. What I have thought was frizzy/heat damaged hair on my top layers, sounds like your descriptions of over conditioned hair. I've been going in the heavy moisturizer direction to repair my damaged hair from coloring & straightening. Thanks so much!:-)
CG since 2011

Hair Type:
2b/c(top layer) 2c/3a (under layers)
Porosity: Low
Density: High
Width: Fine on top/Medium underneath

blonde hi-lights

Products & process:
(still figuring this out!!)

Trader Joe's Mint Tea Shampoo every 3/4 days
Trader Joe's Nourishing Conditioner
Deva One Condition LI or Shea Moisture LI
Herbal Essences Totally Twisted Curl Creame
Plop about 20 minutes
Clip roots
Air Dry

Lavender Mist as needed to revive curls
Pineapple at night
First of kathymack is very knowledgeable and gives great advice...but I have low porosity hair and very fine....gets weighted down VERY easy and can become O/C'd also quite easily...I agree that the moisture/protein balance is critical. ..if that's off...then it doesn't matter what styling products I use...but I have tried several PT products and the best I have found is using aubrey GPB with every wash...this has just the right balance for me...makes my hair full, shiny; has more curl with less breakage...and it helpz detangle like butter...just loving it...also I can't use any topical oil on my hair. ..just coats my shaft...my hair won't absorb it...took me few months to reverse the damage...ugh

Sent from my SCH-I535 using CurlTalk App
Pixar likes this.
2b/c CG since 8/12
I have low porosity and fine/med texture. Easily weighed down and VERY frizzy crown, with straighter under layers

Low-poo:TJ TTT, CJ GCS
LI/RO/DC: CK Satin Roots,Sevi Pumpkin, SSI Okra reconstructor, CJ SAC,CJ RM
Stylers: AG Recoil, JC SS
Jellies: CK Coil Jam, Okra gel(HG)
Gel: JC CC, Ouidad H&H gel, Ouidad moisture lock gel

Hair loves moisture protein.
MUST Pixie diffuse.

My hair dose NOT like oils, butters or polyquats Or glycerin in high dews
I'm curious to Aubrey Organics GPB now... Sounds very promising! Just discovered that it's also less expensive than Curl Junkie, which is good. I'm just not sure yet where I can get it. I'll be in London soon, so perhaps it's easier to get my hands on in the UK. Does anyone know?
F - LP - HD - NE
Fine, low porosity, high density, normal elasticity
Hairtype 2c

Low poo: Weleda Oat Replenishing Shampoo
Protein: IAGirl's gelatine treatment
Detangler & LI: KCKT
Styling: KCCC

Beauty Is Not a Number
I love GPB too. I don't know about finding it in the UK... I buy mine at a health food/natural products store, a mom and pop place.

+1 to shellyRN07swavy... oil just won't go "in" my hair very well.

Happy to help, artcurls! I definitely still get frizz when I'm overmoisturized, but it's more like big loops of single hairs that won't clump, and mostly on top, instead of dry, all-over frizz.
shellyRN07swavy likes this.
I sort of blog
I'm mostly away doing field work through mid-May.

Hair: curlybob, fine, dense, low-po, big waves/ringlets (2C/3A)
Co-Wash: Nature's Gate Herbal Conditioner
RO: YTC Carrot, Aubrey Organics GPB
LI: BS Shea Soft Styling Cream (HG)
Styling: KCCC, Garnier P&C Gel
1xWeek: low-poo, gelatin PT or Joico K-Pak
Hair Likes: aloe, coconut oil, humidity, protein, long walks on the beach
I have tried almost every CJ conditioner...and they just didn't do anything for my hair...the Aubrey GPB was awesome after first use...and its cheaper...and most places u can return it...if it doesn't work... if ur hair likes protein. ..give it a try

Sent from my SCH-I535 using CurlTalk App
2b/c CG since 8/12
I have low porosity and fine/med texture. Easily weighed down and VERY frizzy crown, with straighter under layers

Low-poo:TJ TTT, CJ GCS
LI/RO/DC: CK Satin Roots,Sevi Pumpkin, SSI Okra reconstructor, CJ SAC,CJ RM
Stylers: AG Recoil, JC SS
Jellies: CK Coil Jam, Okra gel(HG)
Gel: JC CC, Ouidad H&H gel, Ouidad moisture lock gel

Hair loves moisture protein.
MUST Pixie diffuse.

My hair dose NOT like oils, butters or polyquats Or glycerin in high dews
Bosanbo...maybe we r hair twins??!!!

Sent from my SCH-I535 using CurlTalk App
2b/c CG since 8/12
I have low porosity and fine/med texture. Easily weighed down and VERY frizzy crown, with straighter under layers

Low-poo:TJ TTT, CJ GCS
LI/RO/DC: CK Satin Roots,Sevi Pumpkin, SSI Okra reconstructor, CJ SAC,CJ RM
Stylers: AG Recoil, JC SS
Jellies: CK Coil Jam, Okra gel(HG)
Gel: JC CC, Ouidad H&H gel, Ouidad moisture lock gel

Hair loves moisture protein.
MUST Pixie diffuse.

My hair dose NOT like oils, butters or polyquats Or glycerin in high dews
Sounds like it a bit, from your signature! My underlayers can go straighter, too. Your hair looks much longer than mine, though. Sometimes it seems like it has stopped growing entirely! But I know it hasn't...
I sort of blog
I'm mostly away doing field work through mid-May.

Hair: curlybob, fine, dense, low-po, big waves/ringlets (2C/3A)
Co-Wash: Nature's Gate Herbal Conditioner
RO: YTC Carrot, Aubrey Organics GPB
LI: BS Shea Soft Styling Cream (HG)
Styling: KCCC, Garnier P&C Gel
1xWeek: low-poo, gelatin PT or Joico K-Pak
Hair Likes: aloe, coconut oil, humidity, protein, long walks on the beach
I live in the Netherlands so we actually don't have a lot of the products that are available in the US. We do have some shops that offer Aubrey Organics for 18 + shipping, but no stores unfortunately so I'm not sure if returning is even an option. However, I remembered another Dutchie recommended iHerb and I could get it there including shipping and a reduction code for just 8,- via Global Priority Mail by DHL. No track-and-trace, but the cheapest option (it's not like I'm shipping an expense watch or something). I'm thinking of getting it.

I'm not even entirely sure if my hair likes protein but the fact that it definitely does not like oils and emollients (seeing how it reacts to my conditioner) and that it does not react bad at all to my gel (which contains protein), I think it likes protein. My hair is fly-away and flimsy so I realised it must be fine instead of coarse.

But before I'm ordering, I'll wash my hair with just the low-poo and only use Curl Queen for styling so I have omitted the oils and I'll see what happens.
bosanbo likes this.
F - LP - HD - NE
Fine, low porosity, high density, normal elasticity
Hairtype 2c

Low poo: Weleda Oat Replenishing Shampoo
Protein: IAGirl's gelatine treatment
Detangler & LI: KCKT
Styling: KCCC

Beauty Is Not a Number
Keep us updated. CurlTalk has totally opened my eyes to how many hair products Americans can get very easily... Not sure what that says about us!
Lauraimes likes this.
I sort of blog
I'm mostly away doing field work through mid-May.

Hair: curlybob, fine, dense, low-po, big waves/ringlets (2C/3A)
Co-Wash: Nature's Gate Herbal Conditioner
RO: YTC Carrot, Aubrey Organics GPB
LI: BS Shea Soft Styling Cream (HG)
Styling: KCCC, Garnier P&C Gel
1xWeek: low-poo, gelatin PT or Joico K-Pak
Hair Likes: aloe, coconut oil, humidity, protein, long walks on the beach
I will keep you updated! I'm visiting London soon so I checked the internet and it seems that there are some stores selling Aubrey Organics. My boyfriend suggested that I just find one, buy a bottle, try it while we're still there and get one or two more bottles if I like it :-)

I actually haven't thought about what it says about you guys but I think it's great that you have such a variety to tend to so many people's preferences and needs. It also seems to me that the whole taking care of your curls-thing is more alive in the US than anywhere else. If you google for information in Dutch on sulfates and silicones, you barely get any hits (good news: people will (hopefully) find my website because I'm writing a series about taking care of your curls).

I'm always very curious to the US because I study English Language & Culture and I have a British accent but it seems that British culture is so close whereas the US feels much more 'abroad' if you get what I mean. I only know one American and the rest of my ideas and observations about the US are based on what I see on tv.

However, this is an American website and I honestly have never encountered a message board where everyone is helpful and kind. I'm moderating one in the Netherlands and it's a lot of unkindness and negativity (which is why we moderate it :-P).

But, back to hair. I carried off with my fascination for other cultures.
shellyRN07swavy, Pixar and bosanbo like this.
F - LP - HD - NE
Fine, low porosity, high density, normal elasticity
Hairtype 2c

Low poo: Weleda Oat Replenishing Shampoo
Protein: IAGirl's gelatine treatment
Detangler & LI: KCKT
Styling: KCCC

Beauty Is Not a Number
"Three things jump out at me, and I'm just basing this on the theory that we have similar hair:

- My hair hates olive oil. I've tried it as a shampoo/conditioner mix-in, as a DT, etc. in the past, and it always makes my hair heavy and lank.

- There's a lot of oil in the conditioner and the Curl Creme. Just reading the label, I would personally avoid the Curl Creme, because I've never had success with products that contain several oils. My hair is just too fine, and low-porosity, so all of that oil just sits on my hair.

- Do you know how your hair handles aloe vera? My hair likes it, and it definitely moisturizes my hair, but I know a lot of people on the forum say their hair dislikes aloe. For example, when I started CG I was using straight aloe vera gel on my hair to tame the frizz, and it never looked bad or greasy or freaked out, but it got overmoisturized fast. Aloe seems to be one of the few moisturizers that my low-po hair actually drinks right up.

So, there's my initial thoughts: it's a lot of oil, and I know my own hair gets very weighed down/overmoist from too much oil. Maybe too much aloe. Maybe others will have insight into other ingredients, too."



great answers again basanbo...I agree with all you said..I use to use those products except i had rehab for my conditioner...I then purchased the strength conditioner for some protein...but my hair was frizzy and limp and lifeless...I then received great advice from kathymack about polyquats in products...that they tend to cause frizz in fine haired ladies...and that all the oil is probably just building up on your hair shaft...So I would clarify your hair with purell or Giovanni TTTT or even better Trader Joes tea tree tingle(awesome product) and start using a lighter conditioner or ones without added oil...Definitely try the GPB conditioner...It just might be the right ablance for you as well...At times, I think I could use more protein, but I cannot find any other conditioner that actually moisturizes with O/C than the GPB...so I believe: don’t fix what aint broken


And its interesting what you said about the curly board..I thought over there(LOL) you would have more support...That its all about natural and health for beauty...Im pretty suprised...but glad you are here with us:0
Lauraimes likes this.
2b/c CG since 8/12
I have low porosity and fine/med texture. Easily weighed down and VERY frizzy crown, with straighter under layers

Low-poo:TJ TTT, CJ GCS
LI/RO/DC: CK Satin Roots,Sevi Pumpkin, SSI Okra reconstructor, CJ SAC,CJ RM
Stylers: AG Recoil, JC SS
Jellies: CK Coil Jam, Okra gel(HG)
Gel: JC CC, Ouidad H&H gel, Ouidad moisture lock gel

Hair loves moisture protein.
MUST Pixie diffuse.

My hair dose NOT like oils, butters or polyquats Or glycerin in high dews

Last edited by shellyRN07swavy; 04-06-2013 at 05:18 PM.
Thanks for the recommendations, shellyRN07swavy!

I washed my hair yesterday and instead of doing no-poo or low-poo followed by a co-wash, I simply low-pood without using my conditioner afterwards. Today (because my hair always sucks on washing day), my curls are already less weighed down. Still, my hair remains very fly-away and lacks firmness, but at least the curls are looking much better. I do have some frizz though not too much. Just more than usual 'cause I barely have frizz. All this simply confirms that my hair doesn't like the oils and gets weighed down from that. I'm hoping that Aubrey Organics GPB will solve the problem and provide the moisture and protein it needs without weighing my hair down.

Now it's my turn to be surprised, haha. It's very hard to find sulfate and cone-free products, and even harder to get your hands on anything natural. If you do, you pay a lot. Products from the US are available but expensive and only via one webshop that provides these American products for Europe (though luckily based in the Netherlands so shipping costs are affordable). Another option is eBay but for some reason they never have what I want. I guess I'm a bit picky. That's just the lack of products, but there's also little knowledge about hair. I inform my hairdresser about my curl journey and she's always surprised at what I discover. I don't believe we have a lot of hairdressers that focus on properties and such. I've never encountered one. My previous hairdresser did know about cones, though, but only told me they coated your hair. Terms like build-up or sulfates were never mentioned and I learned everything I know from the Internet.
F - LP - HD - NE
Fine, low porosity, high density, normal elasticity
Hairtype 2c

Low poo: Weleda Oat Replenishing Shampoo
Protein: IAGirl's gelatine treatment
Detangler & LI: KCKT
Styling: KCCC

Beauty Is Not a Number
Have you done a clarifying wash yet??.. I would just to try to get your to base and can start over...you have previously used some heavy products that all the oil may be coating your hair...I swear the same thing happened to me...but I was also using coconut oil...ugh...I had to clarify May hair couple times to remove all the build up..then I did a PT/DT treatment. ..this happened several months ago...and I have had a very hard time finding my balance with enough protein and not o/cing my hair...

In regards to being overseas...I just never thought you would have so little...I can't believe the lack of knowledge and products available. .I thought it was the complete opposite. ..but its still difficult here...when people ask what I use in my hair..I say no sulfate or silicone products. ..and they saw..so you don't wash your hair..that's soo gross...lol..I just smile and say "yep"..its too much energy to really explain...lol..but we do have more products available. ..but yet I'm trying to make my own gels...which you can do too..

Sent from my SCH-I535 using CurlTalk App
2b/c CG since 8/12
I have low porosity and fine/med texture. Easily weighed down and VERY frizzy crown, with straighter under layers

Low-poo:TJ TTT, CJ GCS
LI/RO/DC: CK Satin Roots,Sevi Pumpkin, SSI Okra reconstructor, CJ SAC,CJ RM
Stylers: AG Recoil, JC SS
Jellies: CK Coil Jam, Okra gel(HG)
Gel: JC CC, Ouidad H&H gel, Ouidad moisture lock gel

Hair loves moisture protein.
MUST Pixie diffuse.

My hair dose NOT like oils, butters or polyquats Or glycerin in high dews
Yes, I have clarified and luckily I don't seem to suffer from a lot of build-up now that I low-poo again. I can't wait to try Aubrey Organics GPB, so curious to see if it helps! Hope it revives my curls again :-)

For the past few days, I have refreshed my hair with spraying water on it until soaking wet (which takes a long time), then applying a fairly large amount (or what I consider a large amount) of Curl Queen. I let that dry and then I use a pea-sized amount of CJ CCCL to SOTC. I have a love-hate relationship with CCCL because it does revive my curl when I use it on its own, but it also weighs down a bit because of the oils. Without it, my hair looks kind of frizzy because I haven't used conditioner when washing it this time to see whether the oils were really the problem (they were, as well as the lack of protein). I'm guessing that my current routine might work when I low-poo and follow up with AO GPB or perhaps even just co-wash with AO GPB since that will restore my moisture-protein balance. I included a picture and I hope you can see it because I always mess up the pictures here.

http://i49.tinypic.com/24mtap2.jpg

I'm surprised too. To me, it seems very logical that you use fairly natural products. I apply this idea to my hair, make-up (since I'm allergic to basically anything) and food. No additives and chemical stuff for me if I can help it.

I have a blog and I'm writing a series on hair care. So far, I've shown how little products I use to stir my readers' curiosity and I've written a post about sulfates and silicones. It so satisfying to get positive reactions. People have no idea about these ingredients and some immediately took action and bought the YTC poo and conditioner. I will write about no pooing upcoming Monday and then link to the next article about hair properties. It's so exciting to be one of the first (or perhaps even the first) to put this information out there. I will end my series with an overview of the most useful links so they can continue their own research.

I recognise the whole explaining thing. People seem very ignorant when it comes to the significance of knowing your hair and knowing what you use on it. They assume that whatever is in stores will suffice and why should it be harmful? It is available so it should be good for us. I get the idea that this is the general attitude and it's difficult to get an open-minded response. It depends entirely on the person whether I elaborate or not.
bosanbo likes this.
F - LP - HD - NE
Fine, low porosity, high density, normal elasticity
Hairtype 2c

Low poo: Weleda Oat Replenishing Shampoo
Protein: IAGirl's gelatine treatment
Detangler & LI: KCKT
Styling: KCCC

Beauty Is Not a Number
Ι tried a protein treatment today. My hair is fine, low porosity and has no elasticity whatsoever. I started to get these pretty, tight curls but then I scrunched again and I ruined them.

Protein seems to work for me and my hair won't tolerate a lot of moisture. Even when I low poo, it gets overconditioned. I'm wondering if I will be able to correct that by doing regular protein treatments?

I also have a problem with the way I scrunch. I can even get 3b curls on the front, 2c back and my underlayer is 2b at best. I think it's because I can't figure out scrunching. I can tell that I don't scrunch in the back and I don't know how to correct it without separating the crunch and getting frizz and flyaways. This is also off-topic, but I'm getting frustrated because my hair seems to want to cooperate and I won't let it. =/
That's exactly what I'm curious to see as well, Katsaromalla. I'm going to try Aubrey Organics GPB really soon (I hope) and see whether that will solve the puzzle for me.

As for SOTC, I'm still experimenting with that and it seems that SOTCing works for me if I use a pea-size amount of CJ CCCL. It's a cream with oils in it and my hair doesn't really like oils but it seems to work for now. Not sure if that would work for you as well.
F - LP - HD - NE
Fine, low porosity, high density, normal elasticity
Hairtype 2c

Low poo: Weleda Oat Replenishing Shampoo
Protein: IAGirl's gelatine treatment
Detangler & LI: KCKT
Styling: KCCC

Beauty Is Not a Number
The problem is that I'm Greek. I don't really have access to products and I don't know if I want to order things abroad when I'm not certain that they will work.

Today I applied something that's between a mousse and a gel on soaking wet hair and then plopped. After 20 minutes it sucked and I was frustrated, so I used more of that until my hair became ridiculously crunchy. I SOTC'd without any product and it looks better than it recently has. I really need to figure out how to scrunch every section of my hair, though.
It's all trial and error so I know how you feel.

I lack access to a lot of products as well because I'm from the Netherlands. We're blessed to have the Mariposa Import webshop (that ships to Europe!) but it is quite expensive.

People also have recommended iHerb and I believe I read a review on the product review board, so perhaps you can check that out.
F - LP - HD - NE
Fine, low porosity, high density, normal elasticity
Hairtype 2c

Low poo: Weleda Oat Replenishing Shampoo
Protein: IAGirl's gelatine treatment
Detangler & LI: KCKT
Styling: KCCC

Beauty Is Not a Number
The problem is that I'm Greek. I don't really have access to products and I don't know if I want to order things abroad when I'm not certain that they will work.

Today I applied something that's between a mousse and a gel on soaking wet hair and then plopped. After 20 minutes it sucked and I was frustrated, so I used more of that until my hair became ridiculously crunchy. I SOTC'd without any product and it looks better than it recently has. I really need to figure out how to scrunch every section of my hair, though.
Originally Posted by Katsaromalla
What a coincidence that you're Greek, because I was just about to suggest you use Greek yogurt as a protein treatment! I actually just did it a few minutes ago when I washed my hair. I applied it at the ends first, then all the way to the roots, after my shampoo and kept it in for a few minutes before rinsing and applying conditioner. It makes my hair feel stronger and although my waves still seem to hang limp like usual (I've yet to find something to help with that), they look a little more defined, as if I put a little gel in my hair.
mostly 2a/2b hair, fine, medium density, low porosity?

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