2C/3A fine/low por - want to try PT?

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I have very fine, very dense hair that has the 3A top/2C underneath look right now (hoping to fix that with a pro curly hair cut next weekend). I seem to have low elasticity, or at least my curls are VERY easily disrupted/loosened. Combing them, running my fingers through them, sleeping on them for sure, wearing a ponytail, etc. all stretches my curls way out. Forget it if my hair is wet! I've confused countless hairdressers by arriving with curly hair, then having straight hair once they wash/comb it (hence going for a dry cut this time).

I'm wondering if a protein treatment would help this. From what I've read in other posts, it has helped others, but I'm concerned that my low-porosity hair will react badly. My hair is super-squeaky doing the rub test, floats forever, and in the past has been super-resilient with dyes and heat treatments, etc. It takes dye, but has never looked unhealthy from it, even when I bleached it two days in a row! Yikes, I know. I no longer dye my hair and use only low heat (Pixiecurl) to dry it when needed.

How do I know what PT to use, what type of protein my hair will like, etc.? Or is it just trial and error? It responded very well to an amino acid shampoo I use to use, it loves coconut oil (not a protein) and hates shea butter and olive oil. I put egg yolks on it once and it seemed kinda odd afterwards, so I'm worried I might be protein sensitive and thus ruin my hair with a PT.
I sort of blog
I'm mostly away doing field work through mid-May.

Hair: curlybob, fine, dense, low-po, big waves/ringlets (2C/3A)
Co-Wash: Nature's Gate Herbal Conditioner
RO: YTC Carrot, Aubrey Organics GPB
LI: BS Shea Soft Styling Cream (HG)
Styling: KCCC, Garnier P&C Gel
1xWeek: low-poo, gelatin PT or Joico K-Pak
Hair Likes: aloe, coconut oil, humidity, protein, long walks on the beach
The only place I've ever read questioning low porosity hair and protein is on the texture/porosity page on nc.com, which is why I don't give out that link.

My fine/low porosity hair never met a protein it doesn't like. I do at least on PT a week and use a lot of products with protein.

I usually use moisturizing PTs like CJ Repair Me or SS Protein Repair, so I don't need to do a DT when I'm done. You can also do the Gelatin PT that IAgirl posted, you'd have to search for that.

Other then gelatin, I don't usually do the food PTs like egg, mayo, amino acids, yogurt, etc. Can't stand the way my hair smells after a lot of these.
3a (Corkicelli), highlighted, fine, low porosity
modified CG, since April '07
CG since 3/11/08

SE PA

HGs: Anything Sevi; Curly Kinks Satin Roots, Curlycue ReNew and Coil Jam; homemade FSG and okra gel; soap bars; UFD Curly Magic (now Hello Curly Curl Stimulater); Botanical Spirits Jellies, CJ Repair Me, Marie Dean Leave Ins and Curl Creams
Thanks, KathyMack. Do you find it makes your hair more "resilient" in terms of holding a curl and getting good second day hair? That's what I'm really trying to fix, and it makes sense to my science-brain that a PT would help.
I sort of blog
I'm mostly away doing field work through mid-May.

Hair: curlybob, fine, dense, low-po, big waves/ringlets (2C/3A)
Co-Wash: Nature's Gate Herbal Conditioner
RO: YTC Carrot, Aubrey Organics GPB
LI: BS Shea Soft Styling Cream (HG)
Styling: KCCC, Garnier P&C Gel
1xWeek: low-poo, gelatin PT or Joico K-Pak
Hair Likes: aloe, coconut oil, humidity, protein, long walks on the beach
I never used products or did treatments before I started lurking on nc.com almost six years ago. When I started, my hair was winter wavy/summer 3a. The things I learned here have strengthened my curl pattern. My hair now looks like my signature picture every day, all year around. I don't look for products that provide hold, my hair doesn't seem to need much.

I wet, use a rinse out and style every day. Don't try for second day hair, so I can't really answer that question.

What I would say to your science brain is that the correct balance between moisture and protein will optimize your curl.
3a (Corkicelli), highlighted, fine, low porosity
modified CG, since April '07
CG since 3/11/08

SE PA

HGs: Anything Sevi; Curly Kinks Satin Roots, Curlycue ReNew and Coil Jam; homemade FSG and okra gel; soap bars; UFD Curly Magic (now Hello Curly Curl Stimulater); Botanical Spirits Jellies, CJ Repair Me, Marie Dean Leave Ins and Curl Creams
What a difference, to have that awesome hair every day! I'm still trying to pin down what makes mine spring up into tight ringlets vs. fall in loose waves no matter what. It seems to like humidity - we spent almost a month in Rome in September, where it was super-muggy and stormy half the time, and my boyfriend joked that my favorite thing about the trip was that my hair looked great. I know other curlies have issues with humidity, but it seems to help my hair.

I've been using Suave Naturals Coconut for my co-wash the past two days because I ran out of my normal Nature's Gate, and it is waaaay fluffy and soft, so moisturizing clearly isn't my problem right now. I made a special trip for the Nature's Gate stuff so it won't be like this tomorrow!

I'm going to try the gelatin PT, so thanks. Your hair is just gorgeous! Seeing the amazing change in people's photos is super-motivating.
I sort of blog
I'm mostly away doing field work through mid-May.

Hair: curlybob, fine, dense, low-po, big waves/ringlets (2C/3A)
Co-Wash: Nature's Gate Herbal Conditioner
RO: YTC Carrot, Aubrey Organics GPB
LI: BS Shea Soft Styling Cream (HG)
Styling: KCCC, Garnier P&C Gel
1xWeek: low-poo, gelatin PT or Joico K-Pak
Hair Likes: aloe, coconut oil, humidity, protein, long walks on the beach
Iím so rarely on here anymore, but today I saw your post and wanted to reply. We seem to have very similar hair qualities, except mine is high porosity. I canít say enough about how protein treatments have helped my hair Ė adding strength, improving curl and giving my hair a more substantial texture (not so fluffy and feathery as is was before Ė if that is a word). I try to do a treatment every week and like the ION Effective Care PT from Sallyís. I also like IAGirls gelatin treatment for a stronger version. I follow up with a rich conditioner right afterwards and leave on for 5-10min, usually GVP Conditioning Balm, also found at Sallyís. From what Iíve read, most fine hair loves protein, so donít be afraid to try it. I also use the Neutral Colorful Protein filler (from Sallyís) that is in liquid form. I add several drops every morning to my leave in. My hair loves that product too. Good luck
2b/3a fine/med-hi density/high porosity (I think)/ highlight-no silicones/sulfates
Lo-poo - ABBA Gentle Shampoo/ Shea Moisture Curl & Shine
Conditioner: GVCB (love it!)/ Regis OO
Leave in
: As I Am
Co-Wash: Tresemme or DevaCurl NoPoo
Stylers: As I Am Curling Jelly/GF Pure Clean/ LALCurl gel - all with BRHG added
Style: scrunch/ diffuse, then air dry. I don't Have much frizz at all
Thank you, NoCurls! Adding strength and decreasing fluffy/feathery texture is my goal. Helps to know it works well for you.
I sort of blog
I'm mostly away doing field work through mid-May.

Hair: curlybob, fine, dense, low-po, big waves/ringlets (2C/3A)
Co-Wash: Nature's Gate Herbal Conditioner
RO: YTC Carrot, Aubrey Organics GPB
LI: BS Shea Soft Styling Cream (HG)
Styling: KCCC, Garnier P&C Gel
1xWeek: low-poo, gelatin PT or Joico K-Pak
Hair Likes: aloe, coconut oil, humidity, protein, long walks on the beach
Update: I tried to take a baby step by using Aubrey Organics GPB. My hair looks awesome, and had tons more root curl. I think a little protein won't hurt me, so now I'm ready to try the gelatin this weekend! Thanks folks.
I sort of blog
I'm mostly away doing field work through mid-May.

Hair: curlybob, fine, dense, low-po, big waves/ringlets (2C/3A)
Co-Wash: Nature's Gate Herbal Conditioner
RO: YTC Carrot, Aubrey Organics GPB
LI: BS Shea Soft Styling Cream (HG)
Styling: KCCC, Garnier P&C Gel
1xWeek: low-poo, gelatin PT or Joico K-Pak
Hair Likes: aloe, coconut oil, humidity, protein, long walks on the beach
I'm curious to hear what you thought about the gelatine PT because I've tried it as well last weekend.
F - LP - HD - NE
Fine, low porosity, high density, normal elasticity
Hairtype 2c

Low poo: Weleda Oat Replenishing Shampoo
Protein: IAGirl's gelatine treatment
Detangler & LI: KCKT
Styling: KCCC

Beauty Is Not a Number
I like it, but need it stronger next time. I made it kind of low-key for the first try. I made my PT as follows:

1.5 teaspoons (t) of gelatine (Knox plain) sprinkled over 1 Tablespoon (T) of cold water to avoid lumps.

3 T of hot water, stirred to dissolve gelatine.

1 t coconut oil

1 t Aubrey Organics GPB

1/4 t ACV

It stayed fairly thin. I low-pooed, conditioned with GPB, towel-dried. Then I poured this over my head while upside-down, using a big plastic bowl to catch the extra (how I always do my rinses). I dunked my ends into it and used my hands to squish everything around. I needed more than I made. Twice as much would have really soaked my hair instead of just being barely enough.

I left it on for half an hour, with a plastic bag and towel turban, then rinsed it out and used Suave Coconut conditioner.

The result? Better than it was. Next time, I'll make a double batch that is slightly stronger and leave out the coconut oil.

My hair was teetering on the brink of overmoisturized, as it always is with the CG method. This is what led me to stop CG the first time, actually - I never encountered the "protein" part of the equation and my hair got too lank. I'm in love with PTs now, after this and my GPB. My hair isn't quite back in balance yet, but it has more bounce and less smooshiness at the ends. Very happy about this!
I sort of blog
I'm mostly away doing field work through mid-May.

Hair: curlybob, fine, dense, low-po, big waves/ringlets (2C/3A)
Co-Wash: Nature's Gate Herbal Conditioner
RO: YTC Carrot, Aubrey Organics GPB
LI: BS Shea Soft Styling Cream (HG)
Styling: KCCC, Garnier P&C Gel
1xWeek: low-poo, gelatin PT or Joico K-Pak
Hair Likes: aloe, coconut oil, humidity, protein, long walks on the beach
Sounds very promising! I found it incredibly hard to apply and most of it just fell off. I'm thinking about putting it in a spray bottle next time but I'm not sure if that works.


My hair is also constantly overconditioned because I bought a conditioner that is high in emollients since I was convinced I had coarse hair. Turns out it's fine but I think just getting rid of the bottle is a waste of money. I have checked the swatch boards but so far not too many Dutchies so I'm hoping I can get the gelatine treatment to work for me to restore the balance.
F - LP - HD - NE
Fine, low porosity, high density, normal elasticity
Hairtype 2c

Low poo: Weleda Oat Replenishing Shampoo
Protein: IAGirl's gelatine treatment
Detangler & LI: KCKT
Styling: KCCC

Beauty Is Not a Number
I have a hard time getting liquid treatments into my hair, too. It's the density/low porosity issue. I kneel on the floor, put my head into the bowl (so fact-first, upside-down) and pour things in, use the bowl to dunk, smoosh, etc. It takes a while... but it's a great quadriceps workout!

I think gelatin would clog a spray bottle.

Hang on to the conditioner. A lot of people on here like a heavier conditioner after a protein treatment. Or you may hit a dry period in the weather and find it works.
I sort of blog
I'm mostly away doing field work through mid-May.

Hair: curlybob, fine, dense, low-po, big waves/ringlets (2C/3A)
Co-Wash: Nature's Gate Herbal Conditioner
RO: YTC Carrot, Aubrey Organics GPB
LI: BS Shea Soft Styling Cream (HG)
Styling: KCCC, Garnier P&C Gel
1xWeek: low-poo, gelatin PT or Joico K-Pak
Hair Likes: aloe, coconut oil, humidity, protein, long walks on the beach
I'll give your technique a try in a few days! I would love to make this PT work for me because it's so easy and inexpensive.

I will definitely keep my conditioner. I think restoring the moisture-protein balance will solve a lot.
F - LP - HD - NE
Fine, low porosity, high density, normal elasticity
Hairtype 2c

Low poo: Weleda Oat Replenishing Shampoo
Protein: IAGirl's gelatine treatment
Detangler & LI: KCKT
Styling: KCCC

Beauty Is Not a Number
Update! I couldn't wait anymore so I tried the gelatine PT again. First cleansed with me low poo, then made a batch of the PT and put it in a spray bottle.

I've got some good and some bad news.

The spray bottle worked like a charm. I put the mixture in there when it was still very liquid and I was able to divide it very evenly this way. Just make sure you spray a fair amount of really warm water to cleanse the thing afterwards.

I let it sit for ten to fifteen minutes. I'm not sure if it's supposed to feel like this but it definitely felt gelatine-like. Rinsed it and was left with I-just-emerged-from-the-swimmingpool hair. Used a tiny blob of conditioner to restore the balance. It felt really soft like always when I use a conditioner.

Then I scrunched it with my hands and t-shirt. When it was not dripping any more, I scrunched in a tiny bit of CJ CCCL. Plopped for fifteen minutes. Now, my hair is still drying but it looks like a frizz ball whereas I'm naturally not someone who frizzes quickly.

I'm confused. I don't know whether my hair likes protein or not, or whether it likes emollients or not. Or what styler it likes. It looks terrible these days.
F - LP - HD - NE
Fine, low porosity, high density, normal elasticity
Hairtype 2c

Low poo: Weleda Oat Replenishing Shampoo
Protein: IAGirl's gelatine treatment
Detangler & LI: KCKT
Styling: KCCC

Beauty Is Not a Number

Last edited by Lauraimes; 04-02-2013 at 01:32 PM.
Update! I couldn't wait anymore so I tried the gelatine PT again. First cleansed with me low poo, then made a batch of the PT and put it in a spray bottle.

I've got some good and some bad news.

The spray bottle worked like a charm. I put the mixture in there when it was still very liquid and I was able to divide it very evenly this way. Just make sure you spray a fair amount of really warm water to cleanse the thing afterwards.

I let it sit for ten to fifteen minutes. I'm not sure if it's supposed to feel like this but it definitely felt gelatine-like. Rinsed it and was left with I-just-emerged-from-the-swimmingpool hair. Used a tiny blob of conditioner to restore the balance. It felt really soft like always when I use a conditioner.

Then I scrunched it with my hands and t-shirt. When it was not dripping any more, I scrunched in a tiny bit of CJ CCCL. Plopped for fifteen minutes. Now, my hair is still drying but it looks like a frizz ball whereas I'm naturally not someone who frizzes quickly.

I'm confused. I don't know whether my hair likes protein or not, or whether it likes emollients or not. Or what styler it likes. It looks like **** these days.
Originally Posted by Lauraimes
Tiny blob of conditioner wasn't enough moisture. The gelatine PT is strong. You may need to do a DT to restore the moisture balance. Or, at least, slather with really rich conditioner and leave it on for a few minutes while you shower--about the time you'd need to shave your legs, LOL!
3a (Corkicelli), highlighted, fine, low porosity
modified CG, since April '07
CG since 3/11/08

SE PA

HGs: Anything Sevi; Curly Kinks Satin Roots, Curlycue ReNew and Coil Jam; homemade FSG and okra gel; soap bars; UFD Curly Magic (now Hello Curly Curl Stimulater); Botanical Spirits Jellies, CJ Repair Me, Marie Dean Leave Ins and Curl Creams
Update! I couldn't wait anymore so I tried the gelatine PT again. First cleansed with me low poo, then made a batch of the PT and put it in a spray bottle.

I've got some good and some bad news.

The spray bottle worked like a charm. I put the mixture in there when it was still very liquid and I was able to divide it very evenly this way. Just make sure you spray a fair amount of really warm water to cleanse the thing afterwards.

I let it sit for ten to fifteen minutes. I'm not sure if it's supposed to feel like this but it definitely felt gelatine-like. Rinsed it and was left with I-just-emerged-from-the-swimmingpool hair. Used a tiny blob of conditioner to restore the balance. It felt really soft like always when I use a conditioner.

Then I scrunched it with my hands and t-shirt. When it was not dripping any more, I scrunched in a tiny bit of CJ CCCL. Plopped for fifteen minutes. Now, my hair is still drying but it looks like a frizz ball whereas I'm naturally not someone who frizzes quickly.

I'm confused. I don't know whether my hair likes protein or not, or whether it likes emollients or not. Or what styler it likes. It looks like **** these days.
Originally Posted by Lauraimes
Tiny blob of conditioner wasn't enough moisture. The gelatine PT is strong. You may need to do a DT to restore the moisture balance. Or, at least, slather with really rich conditioner and leave it on for a few minutes while you shower--about the time you'd need to shave your legs, LOL!
Originally Posted by kathymack
Thanks for the advice! I guess I was just being careful after overconditioning over and over again.

And excuse me for my word use in my previous post, I didn't realise I used it. Oops
F - LP - HD - NE
Fine, low porosity, high density, normal elasticity
Hairtype 2c

Low poo: Weleda Oat Replenishing Shampoo
Protein: IAGirl's gelatine treatment
Detangler & LI: KCKT
Styling: KCCC

Beauty Is Not a Number
I'm just wondering - sorry to spam your topic, bosanbo! - why my hair reacts this way because right now, it's really soft and flimsy again, as if it's overconditioned.

I'm trying really hard to understand but I just don't. I wish my hair was like it used to be. Generally speaking it still looks really healthy and not too frizzy, but it just seems so lifeless.
F - LP - HD - NE
Fine, low porosity, high density, normal elasticity
Hairtype 2c

Low poo: Weleda Oat Replenishing Shampoo
Protein: IAGirl's gelatine treatment
Detangler & LI: KCKT
Styling: KCCC

Beauty Is Not a Number
Don't worry about it Lauraimes! I solved my issue, so this thread is free for others facing the same question as far as I'm concerned.

From what I've read, PTs are something that might take a few uses to "build up" in your hair again. If it still seems overconditioned, it just might be. My PT really helped my hair, but I feel like I could do another right now and still benefit from it. I'd rather creep up on the right balance than use too strong a PT, though.

It's also possible there's an ingredient in that one conditioner that your hair doesn't like. Want to give us a list? Since your hair is similar to mine (I seem to recall) I might spot something that I know my hair hates, for example. And Kathymack is soooo helpful! I'm glad she's on this thread.
I sort of blog
I'm mostly away doing field work through mid-May.

Hair: curlybob, fine, dense, low-po, big waves/ringlets (2C/3A)
Co-Wash: Nature's Gate Herbal Conditioner
RO: YTC Carrot, Aubrey Organics GPB
LI: BS Shea Soft Styling Cream (HG)
Styling: KCCC, Garnier P&C Gel
1xWeek: low-poo, gelatin PT or Joico K-Pak
Hair Likes: aloe, coconut oil, humidity, protein, long walks on the beach
Ah that's so kind! I'm still figuring out my properties but I do think we're very much alike indeed :-) I thought my hair was low porosity as well but I do have the occasional minor bump. It feels as if it's just the structure of my hair so I'm not sure whether I still have low porosity or not.

I use the Curl Junkie Beauticurls Argan & Olive Oil which I ordered because I thought my hair was coarse. The fact that my hair is constantly overconditiond and actually seems to like Curl Junkie Curl Queen (with quite some protein, yet not turning into straw as coarse hair is supposed to do), I figured that my hair might be fine. I realised that it is quite flimsy and fly away.

Anyway, the ingredients:

Water, Aloe Barbadensis (Aloe Vera) Leaf Juice, Cetearyl Alcohol, Behentrimonium Methosulfate, Cetyl Esters, Simmondsia Chinensis (Jojoba) Seed Oil, Olea Europaea (Olive) Fruit Oil, Argania Spinosa (Argan) Oil, Cocos Nucifera (Virgin Coconut) Oil, Panthenol, Stearamidopropyl Dimethylamine, Yucca Leaf Extract, Equisetum Arvense (Horsetail) Leaf Extract, Urtica Dioica (Nettle) Leaf Extract, Piperita (Peppermint) Leaf Extract, Melissa Officinalis (Melissa) Leaf Extract, Propylene Glycol, Iodopropylnyl Butylcarbamate, Fragrance, Citric Acid.

It is glycerin free, paraben free, protein free, silicone free and sulfate free.

I'm also going to put down the ingredients of my stylers, just to be sure.

Curl Junkie Curl Queen:

Water, Aloe Barbadensis Leaf Juice, Hydroethylcellulose, Corn Starch Modified, Polyquaternium-4, Panthenol, PVP, Camellia Sinensis Leaf (Green Tea) Extract, Wheat Protein, Wheat Starch, Polysorbate 20, Propylene Glycol, Diazolidinyl Urea, Iodopropynyl Butylcarbamate, Fragrance.

It's glycerin free, paraben free, silicone free and sulfate free.

Curl Junkie Coffee-CoCo Curl Creme:


Water, Aloe Barbadensis Leaf Juice, Cetyl Alcohol, Cetearyl Alcohol, Behentrimonium Methosulfate, Camellia Sinesis (Green Tea) Leaf Extract, Panthenol, Stearamidopropyl Dimethylamine, PVP/VA Copolymer, Glyceryl Stearate, Propylene Glycol, Coffea Arabica (Coffee) Seed Oil, Cocos Nucifera (Coconut) Oil, Gardenia Tahitensis Extract, Mangifera indica (Mango) Seed Butter, Oryza Sativa (Rice) Bran Oil, Vitis Vinifera (Grape) Seed Oil, PEG-100 Stearate, Hydrogenated Vegetable Oil, Silk Amino Acids, PPG-5 Ceteth-20, Cetrimonium Chloride, Butylene Glycol, Polyquaternium-7, Hydroxypropyl Starch Phosphate, Algae Extract, Hydroethylcellulose, Polyquaternium-10, Lactobacillus/Wasabia Japonica Root Ferment Extract, PEG-8 Dimethicone*, PEG-8 Raspberriate, Agave Nectar Extract, (Vegetable) Glycerin, Sodium Chloride, Tocopheryl Acetate, Guar Hydroxypropyltrimonium Chloride, Phenoxyethanol, Caprylyl Glycol, Tetrasodium EDTA, Fragrance. *Water soluble-rinses clean!

It's paraben free, silicone free and sulfate free.

So far I haven't really had any magical hair days with any of these products. I find that CCCL does help shaping my curls but it doesn't really hold that long. CQ is confusing because it adds immense shine but I don't get consistent results.

I wash my hair once a week, refresh daily by spraying it soaking wet with my spray bottle (really, I think that thing is my HG instead of a product :-P). I tried plopping for a while but that seems to have lost its charm for my hair.

Curious to hear your thoughts! :-)
F - LP - HD - NE
Fine, low porosity, high density, normal elasticity
Hairtype 2c

Low poo: Weleda Oat Replenishing Shampoo
Protein: IAGirl's gelatine treatment
Detangler & LI: KCKT
Styling: KCCC

Beauty Is Not a Number
Three things jump out at me, and I'm just basing this on the theory that we have similar hair:

- My hair hates olive oil. I've tried it as a shampoo/conditioner mix-in, as a DT, etc. in the past, and it always makes my hair heavy and lank.

- There's a lot of oil in the conditioner and the Curl Creme. Just reading the label, I would personally avoid the Curl Creme, because I've never had success with products that contain several oils. My hair is just too fine, and low-porosity, so all of that oil just sits on my hair.

- Do you know how your hair handles aloe vera? My hair likes it, and it definitely moisturizes my hair, but I know a lot of people on the forum say their hair dislikes aloe. For example, when I started CG I was using straight aloe vera gel on my hair to tame the frizz, and it never looked bad or greasy or freaked out, but it got overmoisturized fast. Aloe seems to be one of the few moisturizers that my low-po hair actually drinks right up.

So, there's my initial thoughts: it's a lot of oil, and I know my own hair gets very weighed down/overmoist from too much oil. Maybe too much aloe. Maybe others will have insight into other ingredients, too.
artcurls and shellyRN07swavy like this.
I sort of blog
I'm mostly away doing field work through mid-May.

Hair: curlybob, fine, dense, low-po, big waves/ringlets (2C/3A)
Co-Wash: Nature's Gate Herbal Conditioner
RO: YTC Carrot, Aubrey Organics GPB
LI: BS Shea Soft Styling Cream (HG)
Styling: KCCC, Garnier P&C Gel
1xWeek: low-poo, gelatin PT or Joico K-Pak
Hair Likes: aloe, coconut oil, humidity, protein, long walks on the beach

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