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Old 10-24-2010, 03:06 PM   #1
 
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Default good co-wash for protein-sensitive CGs

So after having disasterous results this weekend using a new conditioner (AO Jojoba & Aloe Desert Herb) which has milk proteins, hops, etc. and doing an avo/evoo/honey DT, I've learned the hard way that I'm protein sensitive.

Seriously my hair immediately tangled, became stiff as straw and stuck out like Pippi Longstockings! I had never realized that my old routine was fairly low protein (I've been using Biolage conditioning balm for years) and that the small amount of dryness I was having was from introducing some new products about a month ago that had a small amount of protein.

So my question is, what light protein-free conditioners do you guys recomend for co-washing? When I switched from a sulfate poo about a month ago I started using Giovanni 50/50 once a week and I just picked up Giovanni TTTT conditioner for co-washing. What do you all think?
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Old 10-24-2010, 04:50 PM   #2
 
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Originally Posted by queenofdisks80 View Post
So after having disasterous results this weekend using a new conditioner (AO Jojoba & Aloe Desert Herb) which has milk proteins, hops, etc. and doing an avo/evoo/honey DT, I've learned the hard way that I'm protein sensitive.

Seriously my hair immediately tangled, became stiff as straw and stuck out like Pippi Longstockings! I had never realized that my old routine was fairly low protein (I've been using Biolage conditioning balm for years) and that the small amount of dryness I was having was from introducing some new products about a month ago that had a small amount of protein.

So my question is, what light protein-free conditioners do you guys recomend for co-washing? When I switched from a sulfate poo about a month ago I started using Giovanni 50/50 once a week and I just picked up Giovanni TTTT conditioner for co-washing. What do you all think?
I personally am not a fan of Giovanni. My hair is very dry and it's not very moisturizing to me. Also I have a rule - I only use conditioners under $3 for cowashes because I use SO much. Have you tried the Suave Naturals line? All of them are protein free except for the coconut (has silk amino acids). They're pretty thin so good for cowashing and I've never had problems with them not being cleansing enough. And I put oil in my hair every night!
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[SIZE="1"]Fia: 2c/Coarse/ii, low-normal elasticity, low porosity.

Co-wash: Suave Naturals
RO/LI: GFTN, GVPCB
Styling: Curls Defining Moments Curl Release Serum, DevaCare Arc AnGEL, DevaCurl Set It Free, KCCC
DT/PT: GVPCB, AOHR, Coconut oil, Olive Oil, Yogurt PTs, ION Effective Care
SOTC: JCN&S


Last edited by ruchipuchi; 10-24-2010 at 04:55 PM.
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Old 10-24-2010, 07:08 PM   #3
 
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Originally Posted by ruchipuchi View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by queenofdisks80 View Post
So after having disasterous results this weekend using a new conditioner (AO Jojoba & Aloe Desert Herb) which has milk proteins, hops, etc. and doing an avo/evoo/honey DT, I've learned the hard way that I'm protein sensitive.

Seriously my hair immediately tangled, became stiff as straw and stuck out like Pippi Longstockings! I had never realized that my old routine was fairly low protein (I've been using Biolage conditioning balm for years) and that the small amount of dryness I was having was from introducing some new products about a month ago that had a small amount of protein.

So my question is, what light protein-free conditioners do you guys recomend for co-washing? When I switched from a sulfate poo about a month ago I started using Giovanni 50/50 once a week and I just picked up Giovanni TTTT conditioner for co-washing. What do you all think?
I personally am not a fan of Giovanni. My hair is very dry and it's not very moisturizing to me. Also I have a rule - I only use conditioners under $3 for cowashes because I use SO much. Have you tried the Suave Naturals line? All of them are protein free except for the coconut (has silk amino acids). They're pretty thin so good for cowashing and I've never had problems with them not being cleansing enough. And I put oil in my hair every night!
I will definately check those out next time I'm at the grocery store. I never would have thought that something as simple as Suave Naturals would meet my requirements. Except for the coconut that you mentioned (although my hair normally loves coconut oil but I;m steering clear until my hair has cleared up) do all of the other Suave protein-free conditioners meet the CG requirements?
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Old 10-25-2010, 08:09 AM   #4
 
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I will definately check those out next time I'm at the grocery store. I never would have thought that something as simple as Suave Naturals would meet my requirements. Except for the coconut that you mentioned (although my hair normally loves coconut oil but I;m steering clear until my hair has cleared up) do all of the other Suave protein-free conditioners meet the CG requirements?
Only the Suave Naturals. The other Suaves have 'cones. A lot of the Alberto V05 conditioners are protein-free I believe and are great for cowashing. You have to read the label though to make sure. Another good protein free conditioner is Garnier Fructis Triple Nutrition (only this one!). It's oil heavy so some people don't like it. I love it, but I use it as a rinse-out/leave-in. But it's thin enough for cowashing. And is good for detangling too! Also (I've never used these) but it seems like they're protein free:

Tresemme Naturals Nourishing Moisture Conditioner With Aloe Vera and Avocado

Ingredients: Water (Aqua, Eau), stearyl alcohol, cetyl alcohol, caprylic/capric triglyceride, stearamidopropyl dimethylamine, fragrance (parfum), lauroyl lysine, caprylyl glycol, brassica campestris/aleurites fordi oil copolymer, aspartic acid, distearyldimonium chloride, persea gratissima (avocado) oil, citric acid, alcohol, isopropyl alcohol, aloe barbadensis leaf juice

Tresemme Naturals Radiant Volume Conditioner With Sweet Orange

Ingredients: Water (aqua, eau), stearyl alcohol, cetyl alcohol, caprylic/capri triglyceride, stearamidopropyl dimethylamine, fragrance (parfum), caprylyl glycol, aspartic acid, distearyldimonium chloride, lauroyl lysine, benzyl alcohol, citric acid, alcohol, isopropyl alcohol, cymbopogon schoenanthus extract, citrus aurantium dulcis (orange) peel extract

Actually, aspartic acid and lauroyl lysine both sound like amino acids, so maybe not.
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[SIZE="1"]Fia: 2c/Coarse/ii, low-normal elasticity, low porosity.

Co-wash: Suave Naturals
RO/LI: GFTN, GVPCB
Styling: Curls Defining Moments Curl Release Serum, DevaCare Arc AnGEL, DevaCurl Set It Free, KCCC
DT/PT: GVPCB, AOHR, Coconut oil, Olive Oil, Yogurt PTs, ION Effective Care
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Old 10-25-2010, 01:32 PM   #5
 
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Thumbs up WhiteRain-ocean breeze.....

This is a SUPER co-wash, as it is protein-free, CG friendly, and cheap (15 ounces @ 1.75)!!!!

I have been using for the last month with great results, so I bought 3 more bottles before "they" change the formula.
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Old 10-25-2010, 06:42 PM   #6
 
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Default Suave Naturals update

Thanks guys, great suggestions and I'm sure I'm not the only one who'll benifit from your advice.

I just picked up the Suave naturals Aloe & Water Lily today at Wal-Mart For $1.89 (the large family size). Although I saw it at Target later for about $1.34. I chose this one partly b/c of the smell and partly b/c my hair loves Aloe Vera juice. I'll give it a try and report back.

I've discovered 2 Suave naturals that might not be protein-sensitive friendly:

The Soothing Lavender Lilac has Panthenol (vitamin B 5) that some might find a problem.

The Ocean Breeze bottle (not the ingredients on the website) lists Lactic acid, which means milk. I'm not a chemist, but that may suggest a form of milk protein, or rather a building block of protein.
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Old 10-25-2010, 06:50 PM   #7
 
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Originally Posted by ruchipuchi View Post

A lot of the Alberto V05 conditioners are protein-free I believe and are great for cowashing. Also (I've never used these) but it seems like they're protein free:

Tresemme Naturals Nourishing Moisture Conditioner With Aloe Vera and Avocado

Ingredients: Water (Aqua, Eau), stearyl alcohol, cetyl alcohol, caprylic/capric triglyceride, stearamidopropyl dimethylamine, fragrance (parfum), lauroyl lysine, caprylyl glycol, brassica campestris/aleurites fordi oil copolymer, aspartic acid, distearyldimonium chloride, persea gratissima (avocado) oil, citric acid, alcohol, isopropyl alcohol, aloe barbadensis leaf juice
I read somewhere on this board about V05 Tea Therepy Green Tea conditioner, but alas I haven't been able to find it in my area (checked 3 stores).

As for the Tresemme above, after the freak out w/ the avocado DT I think I'll avoid anything w/ avocado in it for the mean time. Although I understand that the oil may not carry the same level of protein as the whole product.
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Old 10-25-2010, 07:50 PM   #8
 
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Originally Posted by queenofdisks80 View Post
Thanks guys, great suggestions and I'm sure I'm not the only one who'll benifit from your advice.

I just picked up the Suave naturals Aloe & Water Lily today at Wal-Mart For $1.89 (the large family size). Although I saw it at Target later for about $1.34. I chose this one partly b/c of the smell and partly b/c my hair loves Aloe Vera juice. I'll give it a try and report back.

I've discovered 2 Suave naturals that might not be protein-sensitive friendly:

The Soothing Lavender Lilac has Panthenol (vitamin B 5) that some might find a problem.

The Ocean Breeze bottle (not the ingredients on the website) lists Lactic acid, which means milk. I'm not a chemist, but that may suggest a form of milk protein, or rather a building block of protein.

Panthenol is just a form of vitamin B5 and is not protein at all:
Quote:
Panthenol is the alcohol analog of pantothenic acid (vitamin B5), and is thus the provitamin of B5. It is well soluble in water, alcohol and propylene glycol, soluble in ether and chloroform, and slightly soluble in glycerin.

In cosmetics, panthenol is a humectant, emollient and moisturizer. It binds to hair follicles readily and is a frequent component of shampoos and hair conditioners (in concentrations of 0.1-1%). It coats the hair and seals its surface, lubricating follicles and making strands appear shiny.
People may have a problem with its humectant properties in lower dew points.

Lactic acid is in milk, but the protein in milk is called casein. So lactic acid is not at all protein either. I believe it is used to bring down the pH of conditioners (your hair is naturally slightly acidic) and helps remove some buildup and may have antibacterial properties.

Also oils are 100% fat and contain ZERO protein. So if you're sensitive to the protein in something (avocado, wheat, coconut, etc, etc), the oils will not have the same effect.
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[SIZE="1"]Fia: 2c/Coarse/ii, low-normal elasticity, low porosity.

Co-wash: Suave Naturals
RO/LI: GFTN, GVPCB
Styling: Curls Defining Moments Curl Release Serum, DevaCare Arc AnGEL, DevaCurl Set It Free, KCCC
DT/PT: GVPCB, AOHR, Coconut oil, Olive Oil, Yogurt PTs, ION Effective Care
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Old 10-25-2010, 07:52 PM   #9
 
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This is a SUPER co-wash, as it is protein-free, CG friendly, and cheap (15 ounces @ 1.75)!!!!

I have been using for the last month with great results, so I bought 3 more bottles before "they" change the formula.
Which is a super cowash? The Tresemme Naturals or Suave Naturals or V05? I'm asking because I want to try the Tresemme as a cowash...
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[SIZE="1"]Fia: 2c/Coarse/ii, low-normal elasticity, low porosity.

Co-wash: Suave Naturals
RO/LI: GFTN, GVPCB
Styling: Curls Defining Moments Curl Release Serum, DevaCare Arc AnGEL, DevaCurl Set It Free, KCCC
DT/PT: GVPCB, AOHR, Coconut oil, Olive Oil, Yogurt PTs, ION Effective Care
SOTC: JCN&S

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Old 10-25-2010, 08:14 PM   #10
 
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Also, I wanted to say that you shouldn't judge protein too harshly just yet. Hair is made of protein (keratin) and therefore all hair needs protein, just in varying amounts and frequency and types. You may be sensitive to some proteins and not to others. I think what happened to you is not necessarily a sign of protein sensitivity, but just a protein overload. You have to find a good balance of protein and moisture. For example, I need a lot more moisture in my balance since my hair is dry and coarse (coarse hair as a general rule already has an abundance of protein), but I do occasional PTs and it really helped my curl pattern and made my hair stronger, less prone to breakage, and smoother. For now you probably need to balance your hair out again with more moisture but if you find yourself losing your curl pattern or having a lot of breakage or your hair stretches but doesn't return to its original length when doing an elasticity test, you may need a bit of protein in your hair eventually.
__________________
[SIZE="1"]Fia: 2c/Coarse/ii, low-normal elasticity, low porosity.

Co-wash: Suave Naturals
RO/LI: GFTN, GVPCB
Styling: Curls Defining Moments Curl Release Serum, DevaCare Arc AnGEL, DevaCurl Set It Free, KCCC
DT/PT: GVPCB, AOHR, Coconut oil, Olive Oil, Yogurt PTs, ION Effective Care
SOTC: JCN&S

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Old 10-25-2010, 08:23 PM   #11
 
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Originally Posted by ruchipuchi View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by queenofdisks80 View Post
Thanks guys, great suggestions and I'm sure I'm not the only one who'll benifit from your advice.

I just picked up the Suave naturals Aloe & Water Lily today at Wal-Mart For $1.89 (the large family size). Although I saw it at Target later for about $1.34. I chose this one partly b/c of the smell and partly b/c my hair loves Aloe Vera juice. I'll give it a try and report back.

I've discovered 2 Suave naturals that might not be protein-sensitive friendly:

The Soothing Lavender Lilac has Panthenol (vitamin B 5) that some might find a problem.

The Ocean Breeze bottle (not the ingredients on the website) lists Lactic acid, which means milk. I'm not a chemist, but that may suggest a form of milk protein, or rather a building block of protein.

Panthenol is just a form of vitamin B5 and is not protein at all:
Quote:
Panthenol is the alcohol analog of pantothenic acid (vitamin B5), and is thus the provitamin of B5. It is well soluble in water, alcohol and propylene glycol, soluble in ether and chloroform, and slightly soluble in glycerin.

In cosmetics, panthenol is a humectant, emollient and moisturizer. It binds to hair follicles readily and is a frequent component of shampoos and hair conditioners (in concentrations of 0.1-1%). It coats the hair and seals its surface, lubricating follicles and making strands appear shiny.
People may have a problem with its humectant properties in lower dew points.

Lactic acid is in milk, but the protein in milk is called casein. So lactic acid is not at all protein either. I believe it is used to bring down the pH of conditioners (your hair is naturally slightly acidic) and helps remove some buildup and may have antibacterial properties.

Also oils are 100% fat and contain ZERO protein. So if you're sensitive to the protein in something (avocado, wheat, coconut, etc, etc), the oils will not have the same effect.
Thanks for clearing up those issues for me! I had heard conflicting things about panthenol, and as I said, I wasn't sure about the Lactic acid. You also confirmed what I had thought about the oil issue.

I really appreciate the advice b/c I went from the best hair of my life to thinking I might literally loose it all in just one day!
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Old 10-25-2010, 08:29 PM   #12
 
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Originally Posted by ruchipuchi View Post
Also, I wanted to say that you shouldn't judge protein too harshly just yet. Hair is made of protein (keratin) and therefore all hair needs protein, just in varying amounts and frequency and types. You may be sensitive to some proteins and not to others. I think what happened to you is not necessarily a sign of protein sensitivity, but just a protein overload. You have to find a good balance of protein and moisture. For example, I need a lot more moisture in my balance since my hair is dry and coarse (coarse hair as a general rule already has an abundance of protein), but I do occasional PTs and it really helped my curl pattern and made my hair stronger, less prone to breakage, and smoother. For now you probably need to balance your hair out again with more moisture but if you find yourself losing your curl pattern or having a lot of breakage or your hair stretches but doesn't return to its original length when doing an elasticity test, you may need a bit of protein in your hair eventually.
Oh, absolutely! I realized what happened is that I had a mild protein build up from the introduction of a few new products about a month ago (hence the slight dryness I was experiencing) and then I "fried" my hair by introducing a new protein heavy conditioner and DT.

So for right now, I'm going totally protein free until my hair returns to normal and then I'll reincorporate a co-wash and leave in that my hair LOVES, which has amino acids for a little needed protein.

I really appreciate the support.
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Old 10-26-2010, 10:37 AM   #13
 
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Very sorry about the confusion with my post:
WhiteRain-ocean breeze is a super co-wash.

I put it in the title but left out of the post! (trying to hurry).
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Old 10-26-2010, 12:16 PM   #14
 
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Very sorry about the confusion with my post:
WhiteRain-ocean breeze is a super co-wash.

I put it in the title but left out of the post! (trying to hurry).
I'll have to look for that as well. Thanks!
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Old 03-04-2011, 08:59 AM   #15
 
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I am a 4a/b, very coarse & dry CG and I agree with everything you said about Garnier Triple Nutrition...I love it and this is about the only store bought thing I will use...everything else I find I have to make myself because my hair is so picky...I still have not mastered my routine, but I definately try to use this everytime I wash, cowash, DC, or detangle because it works wonders!

I tried the tresseme naturals aloe & avocado and HATED it! It dried my hair out even more! You know how when you put the Garnier on, let it sit & work for a few while you detangle and how soft/silky your hair feels...well, tresseme had my hair feelin like straw as it was on my hair, even before I washed it off! I was upset I bought it because it was a huge bottle, and I actually tried to use it a couple of times so that I wouldn't waste it, but I have to give it the boot! (Thank goodness for a big family (7 bros & sis - mostly sis) because what I don't use I donate to them...LOL!

I am desparately in search of a GREAT leave-in or moisturizer that's creamy...I like KCKT but its not moisturizing enough so I have been using Oyin Whippe d Pudding or KCCC as my styling product...but I still need something to put on second & third day styles that will keep them lustrious (however you spell it) and feeling & looking smooth instead of rough & dull. Any suggestions?
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Old 03-09-2011, 10:11 PM   #16
 
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I am a 4a/b, very coarse & dry CG and I agree with everything you said about Garnier Triple Nutrition...I love it and this is about the only store bought thing I will use...everything else I find I have to make myself because my hair is so picky...I still have not mastered my routine, but I definately try to use this everytime I wash, cowash, DC, or detangle because it works wonders!

I tried the tresseme naturals aloe & avocado and HATED it! It dried my hair out even more! You know how when you put the Garnier on, let it sit & work for a few while you detangle and how soft/silky your hair feels...well, tresseme had my hair feelin like straw as it was on my hair, even before I washed it off! I was upset I bought it because it was a huge bottle, and I actually tried to use it a couple of times so that I wouldn't waste it, but I have to give it the boot! (Thank goodness for a big family (7 bros & sis - mostly sis) because what I don't use I donate to them...LOL!

I am desparately in search of a GREAT leave-in or moisturizer that's creamy...I like KCKT but its not moisturizing enough so I have been using Oyin Whippe d Pudding or KCCC as my styling product...but I still need something to put on second & third day styles that will keep them lustrious (however you spell it) and feeling & looking smooth instead of rough & dull. Any suggestions?
I am loving the Lustrasilk Olive Oil conditioning from Sally's right now just for this purpose. It's $3 for a big tub and when I have some curls that are dried out and frizzy I re-moisturize them by smoothing a bit of this on the curl and then re-twisting. It's working great!
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Old 03-11-2011, 05:38 PM   #17
 
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Quote:
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I am a 4a/b, very coarse & dry CG and I agree with everything you said about Garnier Triple Nutrition...I love it and this is about the only store bought thing I will use...everything else I find I have to make myself because my hair is so picky...I still have not mastered my routine, but I definately try to use this everytime I wash, cowash, DC, or detangle because it works wonders!

I tried the tresseme naturals aloe & avocado and HATED it! It dried my hair out even more! You know how when you put the Garnier on, let it sit & work for a few while you detangle and how soft/silky your hair feels...well, tresseme had my hair feelin like straw as it was on my hair, even before I washed it off! I was upset I bought it because it was a huge bottle, and I actually tried to use it a couple of times so that I wouldn't waste it, but I have to give it the boot! (Thank goodness for a big family (7 bros & sis - mostly sis) because what I don't use I donate to them...LOL!

I am desparately in search of a GREAT leave-in or moisturizer that's creamy...I like KCKT but its not moisturizing enough so I have been using Oyin Whippe d Pudding or KCCC as my styling product...but I still need something to put on second & third day styles that will keep them lustrious (however you spell it) and feeling & looking smooth instead of rough & dull. Any suggestions?
I am loving the Lustrasilk Olive Oil conditioning from Sally's right now just for this purpose. It's $3 for a big tub and when I have some curls that are dried out and frizzy I re-moisturize them by smoothing a bit of this on the curl and then re-twisting. It's working great!

Does the Lutrasilk Olive oil have protein in it? Don't know if I've mentioned it, but I'm protein sensitive and that's part of my problem with buying products from stores (its so difficult to find products that don't have protein!!)
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Old 03-11-2011, 11:24 PM   #18
 
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Originally Posted by queenofdisks80 View Post
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Originally Posted by Deekeshay32 View Post
I am a 4a/b, very coarse & dry CG and I agree with everything you said about Garnier Triple Nutrition...I love it and this is about the only store bought thing I will use...everything else I find I have to make myself because my hair is so picky...I still have not mastered my routine, but I definately try to use this everytime I wash, cowash, DC, or detangle because it works wonders!

I tried the tresseme naturals aloe & avocado and HATED it! It dried my hair out even more! You know how when you put the Garnier on, let it sit & work for a few while you detangle and how soft/silky your hair feels...well, tresseme had my hair feelin like straw as it was on my hair, even before I washed it off! I was upset I bought it because it was a huge bottle, and I actually tried to use it a couple of times so that I wouldn't waste it, but I have to give it the boot! (Thank goodness for a big family (7 bros & sis - mostly sis) because what I don't use I donate to them...LOL!

I am desparately in search of a GREAT leave-in or moisturizer that's creamy...I like KCKT but its not moisturizing enough so I have been using Oyin Whippe d Pudding or KCCC as my styling product...but I still need something to put on second & third day styles that will keep them lustrious (however you spell it) and feeling & looking smooth instead of rough & dull. Any suggestions?
I am loving the Lustrasilk Olive Oil conditioning from Sally's right now just for this purpose. It's $3 for a big tub and when I have some curls that are dried out and frizzy I re-moisturize them by smoothing a bit of this on the curl and then re-twisting. It's working great!

Does the Lutrasilk Olive oil have protein in it? Don't know if I've mentioned it, but I'm protein sensitive and that's part of my problem with buying products from stores (its so difficult to find products that don't have protein!!)
Nope. No protein in either the Olive Oil or the Mango Shea Butter version. Both are highly rated here on the protein sensitive board. However, only the olive oil is designed to be used as a LI product.

Some use it as a LI in winter, or a PT. I personally don't find it great for those (not enough slip) but adore it for the purpose of re-hydrating 2nd and 3rd day hair.
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Old 03-13-2011, 10:56 AM   #19
 
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Thanks queenofdisks80! I will definately have to look into that and try it out
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