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Old 07-01-2013, 05:21 AM   #21
 
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Originally Posted by misbehave View Post
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Okra gel makes my hair look so amazing. But because it is a plant I am afraid to use it too often and potentially get overproteined so I only use it for special occasions. My second fave and everyday styler is 4 Naturals Spring Back Custard. I get it at Sally's. 4 Naturals also makes an Afro Stretch Curl Cream that I may try. I don't have an afro but the ingredients look good so I was glad I checked it out.

Yes, I hate coconut anything! I can't even use poos with coco betaine because my hair has a hissy fit. Pulling clumps out must've been super scary! During the start of my journey my hair matted up in one big clump and I feared I would have to shave it. That's when I found Tresemme actually. Protein sensitivity can have nasty consequences if you're on the extreme end (which I am).

Are you doing treatments with the olive oil or sealing? My fussy hair didn't care for olive oil. I don't really do any deep treatments but I seal religiously.

It's definitely a lot of trial and error but it sure does help to find a hair twin. Good luck! And keep me posted if you find anything you like that I should know about!
Plants contain protein but okra mucilage (gel) is not a protein or a plant it's an extract. The mucilage is actually carbohydrate/ soluble fibre based.

Coconut oil is not a protein and it does not act like a protein either that is pseudoscience. Coconut oil is an occlusive AKA anti humectant, protein is a humectant so their core properties are polar opposites. Both can penetrate the hair and both can build up if overused, as can numerous other ingredients.

Coco betaine may be derived from coconut oil but it has NONE of the same properties as coconut oil, so again you are misdiagnosing the issue. Many foaming surfactants and common emollients (fatty alcohols and cationic surfactants) are derived from coconut oil, if your hair hated all derivatives you would be able to use very very few shampoos or conditioners.

TBH what you describe sounds far more like your hair doesn't like plain old build up/ being overly coated and is possibly is pH sensitive.
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2a-2c, medium texture, porous/ colour treated. Three years CG, growing out mechanical and chemical damage = breakage and very high porosity. Past armpit length heading for waist.

CO-wash: Inecto coconut
Treatments: Komaza Matani, coconut oil, Hairveda Sitrinillah
Leave in: Fructis Sleek & Shine (old), Gliss ultimate volume, Inecto argan
Styler: Umberto Giannini jelly, Boots Essentials gel
Experimenting with: going back to basics
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Old 07-02-2013, 12:12 PM   #22
 
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I have given up the protein also. I got lucky and found a great cowash at Ross but I don't think that it is made anymore. It's called Punto 1 of 6 for curly hair. Could not find any proteins or glycerin in it, but couldn't find it anywhere else either. Not even on the Internet. Used with my okra gel and avacado oil, my hair feels pretty good! Avacado oil used in small amounts makes a fantastic sealer. I will be needing a new cowash very soon!!

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3A/3B, coarse, low porosity, high density, iii I believe (?), low to normal elasticity.

CoWash/LI: Punto 1 of 6 Curly hair New Generation Condish
Style:IOkra Gel
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Old 07-06-2013, 09:07 PM   #23
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by misbehave View Post
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Okra gel makes my hair look so amazing. But because it is a plant I am afraid to use it too often and potentially get overproteined so I only use it for special occasions. My second fave and everyday styler is 4 Naturals Spring Back Custard. I get it at Sally's. 4 Naturals also makes an Afro Stretch Curl Cream that I may try. I don't have an afro but the ingredients look good so I was glad I checked it out.

Yes, I hate coconut anything! I can't even use poos with coco betaine because my hair has a hissy fit. Pulling clumps out must've been super scary! During the start of my journey my hair matted up in one big clump and I feared I would have to shave it. That's when I found Tresemme actually. Protein sensitivity can have nasty consequences if you're on the extreme end (which I am).

Are you doing treatments with the olive oil or sealing? My fussy hair didn't care for olive oil. I don't really do any deep treatments but I seal religiously.

It's definitely a lot of trial and error but it sure does help to find a hair twin. Good luck! And keep me posted if you find anything you like that I should know about!
Plants contain protein but okra mucilage (gel) is not a protein or a plant it's an extract. The mucilage is actually carbohydrate/ soluble fibre based.

Coconut oil is not a protein and it does not act like a protein either that is pseudoscience. Coconut oil is an occlusive AKA anti humectant, protein is a humectant so their core properties are polar opposites. Both can penetrate the hair and both can build up if overused, as can numerous other ingredients.

Coco betaine may be derived from coconut oil but it has NONE of the same properties as coconut oil, so again you are misdiagnosing the issue. Many foaming surfactants and common emollients (fatty alcohols and cationic surfactants) are derived from coconut oil, if your hair hated all derivatives you would be able to use very very few shampoos or conditioners.

TBH what you describe sounds far more like your hair doesn't like plain old build up/ being overly coated and is possibly is pH sensitive.
Firefox! Very excited to make your acquaintance. I've seen your posts around the forum and you seem very knowledgeable so I was hoping I'd bump into you at some point.

So it actually took me reading your response several times to realize how you were interpreting some things I was saying. Let me clarify because I'd love to hear your thoughts.

Plants contain protein but okra mucilage (gel) is not a protein or a plant it's an extract. The mucilage is actually carbohydrate/ soluble fibre based.

I understand. But I DO seem to be just as reactive to extracts. I've been unable to use many products that contain them, even products popular with other protein sensitive curlies. This is a huge problem as I'm trying to live a non-toxic life style and the more natural products are full of various extracts. Two examples off the top of my head are KCKT and KCCC - hated!

Coconut oil is not a protein and it does not act like a protein either that is pseudoscience. Coconut oil is an occlusive AKA anti humectant, protein is a humectant so their core properties are polar opposites. Both can penetrate the hair and both can build up if overused, as can numerous other ingredients.

I've seen your crusade around the forum about this. I usually try to be very careful how I word my comments on this as I know this form of communication is prone to misunderstandings and I do not either intentionally or unintentionally want to spread misinformation. I simply want to share my experience. I think my comment on protein sensitivity while I was talking about my experience with coconut oil was misleading (sorry about that!). So let me clear up that I was not trying to say that coconut oil is a protein or has the same properties as proteins. What I was trying to say was that when I use coconut oil, my hair feels exactly like it feels when it has been over proteined - dry, straw-like and even matted. This didn't even happen with overuse, it happened immediately, after one use. For me, both protein use AND/OR the use of coconut oil has resulted in nasty consequences.

Coco betaine may be derived from coconut oil but it has NONE of the same properties as coconut oil, so again you are misdiagnosing the issue. Many foaming surfactants and common emollients (fatty alcohols and cationic surfactants) are derived from coconut oil, if your hair hated all derivatives you would be able to use very very few shampoos or conditioners.

Yes! This, exactly. After trying many many products I HAVE only found a few products my hair can tolerate (since I've gone CG)! And I haven't found even one no-poo, low-poo, or even sulphate shampoo that I can use anymore. I know there are a lot of ingredients in hair products that are derived from coconut oil which has made my life a nightmare. I'm not a scientist or botanist or any other "ist" so I definitely wasn't trying to say that coco betaine has the same properties as coconut oil. It's beyond my understand to say if they do or don't! Lol. I was simply saying that my hair responds in the same way to it. I hope I'm making sense now.

TBH what you describe sounds far more like your hair doesn't like plain old build up/ being overly coated and is possibly is pH sensitive.

I really don't think I have build up or issues with being overly coated. At one point I found my hair felt coated if I used Tresemme too often but since I've discovered the Suaves without proteins and extracts that coated feeling I had seems to have been resolved. Now I use Tresemme sparingly and only if my hair is tangled up from accidental manipulation (ie, sleeping without a protective style).

I don't know much about pH sensitivity but am interested in it. Although, I do tend to feel the most obvious answer is the correct one (that my hair hates protein, extracts, coconut oil, and coconut derivatives). Clearly I'm in the minority with my massive struggles with ingredients, maybe because I am both coarse AND low porosity. So I'm very interested in any help/advice you can offer. I could really use it! At this point CG has been more work than it's worth but I think going back to silicones and sulphates wouldn't be smart for me to do now either. I should note I also eat an extremely anti-inflammatory diet if that makes any difference.

Thanks so much for your contribution to this forum!!
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CG since 3/1/13
3B; Low porosity, Coarse, & Extremely Protein Sensitive
Very high density, waist length

Co wash: Suave Clarifying or Sun Ripened Strawberry
RO: Sun Ripened Strawberry, TN, or TN w/ veg glycerin
Sealer: apricot oil
Styler: 4 Naturals Spring Back Custard, Pantene Curl Defining Mousse, or BB "Mudd"
Using a hard water filter, microfiber towel, & silk head scarves & pillowcases

Avoiding: protein, coconut, & parabens

Last edited by misbehave; 07-06-2013 at 09:10 PM.
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Old 07-07-2013, 06:46 AM   #24
 
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Aussie Moist and Shea Moisture Coconut & Hibiscus Conditioner (orange label)
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Condition: Acure Argan Stem Cell, Yes to Blueberries
Moisturize: Reve' Essentials Moisture Milk
Seal: Argan Oil
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Old 07-10-2013, 04:50 PM   #25
 
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[QUOTE=pharaoh;2182490]What about this?Size:
Yes to blueberries condishioner
NEW!

South Florida curly here who is sensitive to protein and glycerin and is loving Yes To Blueberries Conditioner. Has some glycerin but low on the list. My hair usually freaks out in humidity but YTB has not failed me despite very rainy weather. I use as rinse out and leave in.
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Old 07-27-2013, 08:37 PM   #26
 
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Where do I get okra gel? Do u make it?
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Old 09-30-2013, 07:16 PM   #27
 
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Another fine haired protein/glycerin sensitive curly here! My favorite conditioners are Jessicurl Weekly Deep Treatment and Curl Junkie Curl Rehab. I have to be careful to use products that have good moisture, but I really have to avoid too many emollients or oils. They are just too heavy for my hair. I also have to use a low poo at least twice a week or I get build up on my hair since it's so baby fine. After the last couple of years I can finally use certain proteins every once in awhile (keratin is best, but oat is sometimes ok), but I had to focus on moisture only for several months after I over proteined in the beginning of my journey. I can't ever use glycerin, not even if it's low on the ingredients list. I have finally found some products I love, but it took a long time. My favorites are in my siggy, but I still have a cupboard full of products that don't work for me. Hang in there and keep experimenting!
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3a, baby fine i/ii, low to normal porosity, protein sensitive
Mod CG since 5/12, from rainy Western WA
dislikes: glycerin, wheat protein
Likes: moisture, Mag Sulfate
Poo: Elucence Moisture Acidifying Shampoo
Cond: CJCR, VO5 Clarifying Conditioner
LI: JC WDT, CJ CR
Style: Loma Curvature Curvy Cream, True Polaris Protein Free Truly curly styling gel (Etsy), Sweet Curls flax seed defining gel (Etsy)
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