Firefox! Very excited to make your acquaintance. I've seen your posts around the forum and you seem very knowledgeable so I was hoping I'd bump into you at some point.
So it actually took me reading your response several times to realize how you were interpreting some things I was saying. Let me clarify because I'd love to hear your thoughts.
Plants contain protein but okra mucilage (gel) is not a protein or a plant it's an extract. The mucilage is actually carbohydrate/ soluble fibre based.
I understand. But I DO seem to be just as reactive to extracts. I've been unable to use many products that contain them, even products popular with other protein sensitive curlies. This is a huge problem as I'm trying to live a non-toxic life style and the more natural products are full of various extracts. Two examples off the top of my head are KCKT and KCCC - hated!
Coconut oil is not a protein and it does not act like a protein either that is pseudoscience. Coconut oil is an occlusive AKA anti humectant, protein is a humectant so their core properties are polar opposites. Both can penetrate the hair and both can build up if overused, as can numerous other ingredients.
I've seen your crusade around the forum about this. I usually try to be very careful how I word my comments on this as I know this form of communication is prone to misunderstandings and I do not either intentionally or unintentionally want to spread misinformation. I simply want to share my experience. I think my comment on protein sensitivity while I was talking about my experience with coconut oil was misleading (sorry about that!). So let me clear up that I was not trying to say that coconut oil is a protein or has the same properties as proteins. What I was trying to say was that when I use coconut oil, my hair feels exactly like it feels when it has been over proteined - dry, straw-like and even matted. This didn't even happen with overuse, it happened immediately, after one use. For me, both protein use AND/OR the use of coconut oil has resulted in nasty consequences.
Coco betaine may be derived from coconut oil but it has NONE of the same properties as coconut oil, so again you are misdiagnosing the issue. Many foaming surfactants and common emollients (fatty alcohols and cationic surfactants) are derived from coconut oil, if your hair hated all derivatives you would be able to use very very few shampoos or conditioners.
Yes! This, exactly. After trying many many products I HAVE only found a few products my hair can tolerate (since I've gone CG)! And I haven't found even one no-poo, low-poo, or even sulphate shampoo that I can use anymore. I know there are a lot of ingredients in hair products that are derived from coconut oil which has made my life a nightmare. I'm not a scientist or botanist or any other "ist" so I definitely wasn't trying to say that coco betaine has the same properties as coconut oil. It's beyond my understand to say if they do or don't! Lol. I was simply saying that my hair responds in the same way to it. I hope I'm making sense now.
TBH what you describe sounds far more like your hair doesn't like plain old build up/ being overly coated and is possibly is pH sensitive.
I really don't think I have build up or issues with being overly coated. At one point I found my hair felt coated if I used Tresemme too often but since I've discovered the Suaves without proteins and extracts that coated feeling I had seems to have been resolved. Now I use Tresemme sparingly and only if my hair is tangled up from accidental manipulation (ie, sleeping without a protective style).
I don't know much about pH sensitivity but am interested in it. Although, I do tend to feel the most obvious answer is the correct one (that my hair hates protein, extracts, coconut oil, and coconut derivatives). Clearly I'm in the minority with my massive struggles with ingredients, maybe because I am both coarse AND low porosity. So I'm very interested in any help/advice you can offer. I could really use it! At this point CG has been more work than it's worth but I think going back to silicones and sulphates wouldn't be smart for me to do now either. I should note I also eat an extremely anti-inflammatory diet if that makes any difference.
Thanks so much for your contribution to this forum!!