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FrostiiLove 07-28-2013 06:05 AM

Extreme Protein Sensitivity 4 Years Natural & No HGs
 
I've been natural for years and haven't found products that work in my hair. My hair is averted to aloe, coconut oil, plant extracts especially nettle, avocado, honey etc..

Because I'm lo porosity, things like Shea butter just sit on my hair - eww.

Things That Have Failed

Shampoo - Too many to list(over 25) but I've come to the conclusion that my hair is no poo. Poo gives me dry brittle hair.

Conditioner - Vo5 moisture milks, hello hydration, Aussie moist 3 minute miracle, queen Helene, suave naturals, organix

Leave ins/Moisturizers - qhemet biologics brbc, kckt, curls curl creme brűlé, olive oil hair lotion


Currently I use no poo but i want that clean feeling it gives your scalp. My conditioner is GVP conditioning balm(matrix biolage conditioning balm) it does nothing for me but it doesn't leave my hair feeling like horse feed. Water as a moisturizer and grapeseed oil as a sealant, these two are probably why my hair hasn't just fallen off my head yet lol.

HELP ME PLEASE!!


4A/B - EXTREMELY Protein Sensitive - Lo Porosity - 4 Years Natural - Still Haven't Found HGs

FrostiiLove 07-28-2013 06:14 AM

Oh yea, I ordered curl junkie smoothing lotion and hydro quench greaseless moisture. Anybody have experience with those?

Firefox7275 07-28-2013 08:50 AM

Welcome! I'm no low porosity expert, but I do notice a few things - you list honey and aloe as negatives, then go on to dislike GVP conditioning balm which is rich in propylene glycol. All of these are potent humectants (glycerin is the other key one) so I wonder if that is not right for your hair/ local weather.

What are your dew points/ humidity? How many of those products that have failed contain one of the potent humectants I listed before in the top five? What is your elasticity and are you fine or coarse? Do you have hard water and have you done a chelating wash recently?

People can get quite focussed on moisture (= water), but that is not necessarily what we all need, oftentimes we just need straightforward conditioning. You might just try a really basic conditioner, something containing the major emollients fatty alcohols and cationic surfactants and not much else. These emollients aid clumping and frizz control, help hair hold the right amount of water, soften and provide slip. Then just use your grapeseed oil if that works for you, or experiment with adding other ingredients one by one.

All the 'curl chemist' articles and the Natural Haven blog is worth reading.
Ingredients Commonly Found in Hair Care Products
THE NATURAL HAVEN: Part 1 of 2: Porosity - Definition and Causes
THE NATURAL HAVEN: Part 2 of 2: Porosity - Can you fix it?

FrostiiLove 07-28-2013 11:25 AM

Thank you! I live in super humid Miami. My hair is really shrinky as in I try to do wash and goes but my shoulder length curls shrink to a 3 inch puff by the time it dries. I don't have much elasticity because twist outs straighten my hair. My hair does okay with vegetable glycerin but aloe and honey gives me a crispy matted mess so I'm not sure about humectants. I buy gallon jugs of purified water to wash because the water where I live is extremely chlorinated. I've never heard of chelating, please explain.

FrostiiLove 07-28-2013 04:04 PM

Went to wal-mart not really expecting to find something and left with the tresemme curl hydration conditioner from the flawless curls line, I mixed in a little grapeseed and hemp seed oil.. Omg this stuff had my hair feeling like butter! I think I'm in love, won't know for sure until I've used it for a while. I'm so freakin excited!

Firefox7275 07-28-2013 04:20 PM

Great news!

"Water, Stearyl Alcohol, Cetyl Alcohol, Cyclopentasiloxane, Stearamidopropyl Dimethylamine, Cyclohexasiloxane, Panthenol, Tocopheryl Acetate, Thiamine HCl, Niacinamide, Biotin, Aspartic Acid, Ascorbic Acid, Dimethicone, Quaternium-18, Isostearamidopropyl Ethyldimonium Ethosulfate, Behenamidopropyl Dimethylamine, PEG-9, Polysorbate 20, Disodium EDTA, DMDM Hydantoin, Fragrance."
Tresemme Advanced Technology Flawless Curls Curly Hydration Conditioner - CVS pharmacy

No major humectants, rich in fatty alcohols, loaded with silicones (oils) and you added extra oils - so you've used quite a bit of 'lightweight' non penetrating occlusives. HTH you understand your hair a little better!

JessMess 07-31-2013 02:31 PM

Firefox, she should use some sort of shampoo to wash out that dimethicone, though, right?

FrostiiLove 07-31-2013 03:51 PM

2 Attachment(s)
Attachment 37676Attachment 37677

Yea I know I needed some kind of poo for the cones so I used tresemme cleanse and replenish 2in1 shampoo. Based on the ingredients, do you think it's sufficient to remove the cones? I really hope so because I had no problems with this poo it has holy grail potential, of course I won't know until after a few more uses with consistent results.

FrostiiLove 07-31-2013 04:01 PM

Tresemme cleanse and replenish 2in1 shampoo ingredients: Water, sodium laureth sulfate, cocamidopropyl betaine, glycol distearate, panthenol, tocopheryl acetate, niacinamide, biotin, ascorbic acid, cocamide mea, sodium chloride, guar hydroxypropyltrimonium chloride, polyquaternium-47, polysorbate 20, disodium EDTA, dmdm hydanation, fragrance

JessMess 07-31-2013 08:09 PM

I would guess that SLS (second ingredient) would get out just about anything, but it could dry your hair. Others may have recommendations for gentler shampoos that will still get out the cones.

FrostiiLove 08-01-2013 07:11 AM

I pre pooed and my hair wasn't dry at all which is my usual experience with shampoo. I guess the pre poo did its job. Also I think I found a leave in, curl junky smoothing lotion. I was afraid the slippery elm wouldn't agree with my hair but I had soft juicy little coils that where still soft after the product dried YAY! Again I won't know until after a few more uses if its HG worthy.

lulu008 08-11-2013 03:15 AM

My hair is sensitive to the same things you are but it somehow likes Qhemet's Detangling Ghee. It even has nettle leaf and barley extract. It's literally the only leave in I can use right now without my hair immediately feeling brittle and I've tried MANY. I reviewed that the level of moisture changed from bottle to bottle but the last container I got was in a jar instead of a bottle and was much thicker and more moisturizing.

Here are the ingredients:Aqueous Botanical Infusion of Urtica dioica (Nettle Leaf) Extract, Hordeum vulgare (Barley) Extract, Equisetum arvense (Horsetail) Extract, Pure Cocoa (Theobroma cacao) Butter, PPG-3 Benzyl Ether Myristate, Cetyl Alcohol, Behentrimonium Methosulfate, Behenamidopropyl Dimethylamine, MSM (Methylsufonylmethane), Butylene Glycol, Phenoxyethanol & Ethylhexylglycerin (a Paraben-free & Formaldehyde-free Preservative).

Ingredient Attributes: silicone free, sulfate free, paraben free, protein free, glycerin free

It's a bit expensive but a little goes a long way. Hopefully you can get a sample or try a bit to see if your hair likes it too.

Any updates with curl junkie smoothing lotion? I'm hoping to find another leave-in just to have some options at least lol...

FrostiiLove 08-11-2013 03:13 PM

Its a rough life with such picky hair lol. I think I'll try the ghee, I wouldn't have gone for it because of the nettle, horsetail and barley but we'll see. Are you cg? I'm not really, I tried and it was so hard with how sensitive my hair is to most natural and cg friendly ingredients. I gave up on that and just give my hair what it wants. I finally found a non drying shampoo so I've been using some stuff with cones and it turns out my hair really likes it.

The cj smoothing lotion made my hair crispy but watered down in a spray bottle with a little bit of grapeseed oil it does a decent twist out.

However, I'm in love with hydro quench greaseless moisture they give me the best twistouts they're shiny, defined and moisturized. I also did what i call the wash and go high puff and used some to moisturize after i co washed, my coils were coily and not frizzy after it dried it was amazing but hydro quench gm has dimethicone so it's not really cg friendly.

What do you dc with?

lulu008 08-11-2013 04:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by FrostiiLove (Post 2198763)
Its a rough life with such picky hair lol. I think I'll try the ghee, I wouldn't have gone for it because of the nettle, horsetail and barley but we'll see. Are you cg? I'm not really, I tried and it was so hard with how sensitive my hair is to most natural and cg friendly ingredients. I gave up on that and just give my hair what it wants. I finally found a non drying shampoo so I've been using some stuff with cones and it turns out my hair really likes it.

The cj smoothing lotion made my hair crispy but watered down in a spray bottle with a little bit of grapeseed oil it does a decent twist out.

However, I'm in love with hydro quench greaseless moisture they give me the best twistouts they're shiny, defined and moisturized. I also did what i call the wash and go high puff and used some to moisturize after i co washed, my coils were coily and not frizzy after it dried it was amazing but hydro quench gm has dimethicone so it's not really cg friendly.

What do you dc with?

Oh gosh, the struggle is real! I had to BC twice before figuring out why my hair was always dry and tangled no matter what I did. Coconut oil gives me INSTANT SSK's every time (it's crazy!) and all my products had coconut oil, proteins, AV but it took me that long to catch on. Going forward trying to find products that does not make my hair feel brittle and dry has been just as hard. I'm lucky for the few products I have found to be ok.

My hair is very coily too. I've just given up on any sort of rigid hair regimen or product types. I used to only want to use natural products too because I only use natural skin products but I had to loosen that requirement. I just try whatever does not have ingredients my hair has taught me it hates.

Luckily though, the leave in and DC my hair like are all natural. Lucky coincidence. My hair is meh on silicones and I think at because I'm heavy handed. Also my hair can get really so having to use a sulfate cleanser weekly just nullifies any benefits. Cleansers with cocobetaine are just not enough to remove cones in my experience.

You mentioned you found a non-drying shampoo, what is it called?

The DC I use right now is Dessert organics Red Raspberry Conditioner. It's very thick and moisturizing but I have to make sure not to put it on my scalp. I mix in emu oil and argan oil which are very rich and great for protein sensitive hair. Use them to seal too.The bad news: DE reformulated it awhile ago and added aloe Vera at the top of the list *sigh* I've had to order like 10 bottles of the old formula before it dissapears forever. I was hoping to find a DC replacement in the meantime but no luck. I will probably just to back to DC with Rhassoul Clay an oils.

I'm not surprised about your reaction to curl junkie. Their DC is actually what made le realize that my hair did not like AV. The other CJ product I used gave me the same result you got. I was just hopeful. The hydroquench looks promising! I'm still figuring out how to use cones successfully in my regimen but I'll def. try it since they have a small size. Thanks for sharing!

One day when I have the time, I might work on formulating a conditioner and deep conditioner for people like us who cannot really tolerate aloe Vera, avocado oil, coconut oil, nut oils, proteins, extracts, etc. Just something that would cover most bases for very protein sensitive hair. Probably wont be easy but it will be worth it! (sorry for the long reply! I don't know anyone else with hair sensitives similar to mine so I just let it all out LOL)

Korkscrew 08-13-2013 03:00 PM

Glad you found something that conditions your hair! The answer is yes, you will likely have to shampoo once in a while to remove any possible buildup, just from all those silicones in that Tresseme conditioner.

Actually, a chelating shampoo could kill several birds with one stone and keep you from needing to purchase all that purified H2O. Chelating shampoo is especially good for removing mineral and chlorine buildup. So you could go ahead and use normal shower water but just be sure and chelate shampoo once a month or so. That's bound to save you money and time hauling around all that store-bought H2O.

Also, the sodium polystyrate sulfonate in it is good for removing silicone and possible buildup from quaternium-18, should you start to have problems with that. (Silicones can become a huge problem for many, if left unchecked. )

One good, relatively easy to find chel. poo is Phyto Organics Kelate Purifying Shampoo. I'd follow that up w/a good DC afterward.

FrostiiLove 08-13-2013 04:04 PM

I may try a chelating shampoo. I'm currently just focusing on finding a moisture rich DC. I was also wondering if i should poo after one use of my tresemme or can I use it twice a week and then clarify once a week? I haven't had any issues as far as build up with the cones but everyone's aversion to them has me a bit scared lol

Korkscrew 08-13-2013 05:03 PM

A good idea is to experiment with how seldom you could get away with chelating while still benefitting from it IMO, since it can be drying.

For example, maybe start by chelating just 1x per month ;) If your hair starts behaving wonky despite that, you could try increasing your washes to every 3 or 2 weeks. I doubt you'll need to do it weekly, but honestly every head of hair is so very different when it comes to response to product or build up.

In the event that chelating just doesn't seem to work, it could be something other than build up; like some ingredient, climate or styling issue that still needs to be recognized. (Who knew being curly could require so much detective work at times :tongue:)

afrochick 08-17-2013 06:01 PM

I'm having the same troubles!!! Two years ago I faced a protein overload due to using too much coconut oil. Since I didn't know protein was the problem for a while, I only ended up making the problem worse. After months of trying to recover my hair, I decided to chop it all off and start over. Now, my hair is sensitive to EVERYTHING: protein, AV, extracts....NOTHING WORKS!
I use conditioners with cones because they are really my only option (broke college student who needs tons of conditioner at a time). My hair is fairly healthy, but product builds up extremely quickly on my hair especially coney conditioners so I need to low-poo a little more than I would like to and my ends get pretty dry.

Just wanted to let you know that you are not alone!

FrostiiLove 08-19-2013 01:25 AM

Welcome to the pickiest hair ever club lol. I put conditioner in my hair before i went to the beach like I normally do but it didnt work. So my hair is freaking out again, uggggh. I need a DC, my hair feels sooo dry! I feel like I'm going to do a 4th bc, relax it :(, and/or cry. I think it's the preggo hormones but this is the most upset I've been with my hair. I'm trying to calm down. I just need a simple regime so I won't stress like this. It's not good for the baby and its not worth it over hair.

Korkscrew 08-19-2013 03:05 AM

I wouldn't do a reactionary BC just yet. If you do a BC without figuring out your basic issue, you risk having to deal w/the whole ordeal again as your hair grows out.

I completely agree w/you about keeping things simple. That's my hunch too. Choosing one chelating shampoo (for once per month shampooing), and throughout the month, sticking wit a quality conditioner that doubles as a co-wash and LI. The conditioner would ideally be one w/out "cones" or quaternium (along w/minimal or no protein, of course).

Also, deep conditioning 1x per week might be good, so that you place your hair in a plastic cap and either sit under a hooded dryer for up to an hour, or if you don't have a hooded dryer, simply keep the conditioner in for a couple hours w/your hair in a plastic cap plus a towel to lock in heat.


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