QOD Max BKT DIY journey fine 3c/4a~UPDATE 4th app w/rant

...now I'm scared. I've been reading about dry and splitting ends, and I'm scared to do this. I have been faithfully growing my hair out for 3 years now. It's probably around mid back now (stretched), and I would die if I did anything to damage it.

I have super fine 3c hair. I don't want to use it to straighten, just to reduce some of the curl and will be airdrying only after the initial 4-day period.

Any pointers or experiences from others who have DIY and some time has passed?

Baby fine, honey & caramel hilites, 4a/3c now 2b w/DIY BKT & LOVIN' it.
Cowash-V05 Extra Body
L'oreal EP Moisture-Rinse-out
JFLVM
BRHG mix w/
KCCC/KCKT (winter)
Clean-smelling-hair freak washes EOD; dry w/bowl diffuser
Cassia+henna+grays=Gold-red hilites
~That you don't share my experiences/opinions doesn't invalidate them
I wondered if it tasted like a hot dog. ~Phoenix

Last edited by ~Ghost Poster~; 01-13-2010 at 12:48 PM.
you caved in?!?!? just kidding!

well, i did it like, last month or something and i'm back to being curly. i actually just washed it out. i'm so undecisive when it comes to my hair and how i want it styled which is why i think the QOD is perfect! it eventually washes out. i had no issues with split ends. my hair is just as healthy as it was before the treatment. and like i said somewhere before, your hair will feel sooooo soooffftt!! i've never had my hair feel that soft. i would puff out my own hair just from feeling up on it! lol. it definitely did reduce my curls. my hair looks pretty 2C when curly, and i barely could hold a curl without tons of BRHG.

i think you'll be ok. but i dont blame u for being nervous!! i was so nervous!! i had my cousin do it the first time, but if i ever do it again, i will just do it myself. she was taking too long! im only at 92%, so feel free to PM me if you would like.
para los gustos se hicieron los colores

i has no hair type? (medium, f-iii), normal porosity, LOW elasticity.
CG journey began 2/8/09 - 4-08-09.. and then mod cg 4/14/09 -... 03/02/10- Barely CG but I like CG products
wash with Low Poo or Poo
condition with GVP Conditioning Balm or CJ BC Daily, Loreal Color Vive for Color Treated Hair Thats Normal
Leave ins- Garnier S&S; Marrakesh oil
style with - Ohm SHP; KCCC- BRHG or Boots- KCCC- BRHG; CIAB; CCCC
Protein- GVP Joico K-Pak
Play with ACV
Not only did I cave in...I completely imploded! I bought a kit for $200 that included a suitable (allegedly), free (allegedly) flat iron and a "thermal" comb--which I thought was heated but isn't (boo). Not sure what exactly to do with that thing.

When you say you washed it out, do you mean you purposely washed it out with a shampoo containing sodium chloride or some other unapproved ingredient?

I'll be honest, that softness thing kind of worries me, too. For my hair type, softness often = frizz and lack of curl definition. I'm someone who feels my hair alot, too.

Oh, I guess once won't hurt me. My hair is actually structurally pretty sturdy. It took years and years of me DIY relaxing every 4 weeks AND DIY coloring every 4 weeks AND washing/blowdrying/flat ironing every single day to really kill off my hair. So, I think one trial of this should be ok.

So you really think you can do it yourself? How will you get the back of your head properly? I only have my bf to help me, which he will be thrilled to do, but he barely does his own hair, so I'm wondering how his skill level will translate.

I won't be doing it until next week sometime, and I'll post my journey once it begins for all you other fine-haired 3cs (or anyone else) out there who are vacillating.

Baby fine, honey & caramel hilites, 4a/3c now 2b w/DIY BKT & LOVIN' it.
Cowash-V05 Extra Body
L'oreal EP Moisture-Rinse-out
JFLVM
BRHG mix w/
KCCC/KCKT (winter)
Clean-smelling-hair freak washes EOD; dry w/bowl diffuser
Cassia+henna+grays=Gold-red hilites
~That you don't share my experiences/opinions doesn't invalidate them
I wondered if it tasted like a hot dog. ~Phoenix
LOL!! you are too silly!!! LOLOL. after spending $200 on it, i really hope you LOOOVVEE IT!!!!

i purposely washed it out with a sulphate shampoo. i didnt want it straight anymore and i wanted MY curls back. i'm telling u, i never know what i want!

since im coarse and thick, i really dont know how it might effect your hair... but if you dont like it, you can sulfate it out!! might take 2 washes for it to come back to your normal curls, but it does revert.

i am extremely flexible. if i can flat iron the center part of my head, i will find a way to get it all in there. i will bend my arms and neck however i need to to get it done!!!

let me know how it goes.
para los gustos se hicieron los colores

i has no hair type? (medium, f-iii), normal porosity, LOW elasticity.
CG journey began 2/8/09 - 4-08-09.. and then mod cg 4/14/09 -... 03/02/10- Barely CG but I like CG products
wash with Low Poo or Poo
condition with GVP Conditioning Balm or CJ BC Daily, Loreal Color Vive for Color Treated Hair Thats Normal
Leave ins- Garnier S&S; Marrakesh oil
style with - Ohm SHP; KCCC- BRHG or Boots- KCCC- BRHG; CIAB; CCCC
Protein- GVP Joico K-Pak
Play with ACV
Yeah, I know, right? If you're gonna f-up, don't just f-up a little...f-up royally! It was $200 because it was the big 33 oz. bottle plus that other "free" stuff. I thought I had made up my mind to do it, and I didn't want to pay someone else $400 a pop for something that might not work well and that I could likely do myself, so it seemed like a good idea at the time...and it still might work out.

So, it's sulfates that reverse the process, not sodium chloride? Or both? I received a "free" bottle of Natura Keratin clarifying shampoo in my kit, but the ingredients are not listed on the bottle, and I can't find them anywhere on the Internet, so I don't know if it has sulfates or sodium chloride in it. I guess I'll just email the seller.

Final questions (for today!): Did your curl pattern come back to its original glory?

Thank you for being so forthcoming and helpful.

Baby fine, honey & caramel hilites, 4a/3c now 2b w/DIY BKT & LOVIN' it.
Cowash-V05 Extra Body
L'oreal EP Moisture-Rinse-out
JFLVM
BRHG mix w/
KCCC/KCKT (winter)
Clean-smelling-hair freak washes EOD; dry w/bowl diffuser
Cassia+henna+grays=Gold-red hilites
~That you don't share my experiences/opinions doesn't invalidate them
I wondered if it tasted like a hot dog. ~Phoenix
you definitely got a lot of goodies with ur purchase! i had to go out of my way and buy the additionals. so i probably spent the same now that i think about, and i only got a tiny bit of product!!

i think i read no sulfates and no sodium chloride... but i could be wrong... maybe it just washed out cause it was its time. i have virgin hair (no dyes no relaxers ever) and they say the treatment lasts less time with virgin hair... so maybe i didnt wash it out. it was just time i guess. but if that shampoo came with the package, i think its safe to use with the treatment.

i think my curl pattern reverted to its natural pattern. almost positive. no less curlier than before, no more curlier than before.
para los gustos se hicieron los colores

i has no hair type? (medium, f-iii), normal porosity, LOW elasticity.
CG journey began 2/8/09 - 4-08-09.. and then mod cg 4/14/09 -... 03/02/10- Barely CG but I like CG products
wash with Low Poo or Poo
condition with GVP Conditioning Balm or CJ BC Daily, Loreal Color Vive for Color Treated Hair Thats Normal
Leave ins- Garnier S&S; Marrakesh oil
style with - Ohm SHP; KCCC- BRHG or Boots- KCCC- BRHG; CIAB; CCCC
Protein- GVP Joico K-Pak
Play with ACV
My hair is virgin right now, but I'm going to have it colored before I do the BKT, so that oughtta open up a few holes for some keratin to grab onto!

Baby fine, honey & caramel hilites, 4a/3c now 2b w/DIY BKT & LOVIN' it.
Cowash-V05 Extra Body
L'oreal EP Moisture-Rinse-out
JFLVM
BRHG mix w/
KCCC/KCKT (winter)
Clean-smelling-hair freak washes EOD; dry w/bowl diffuser
Cassia+henna+grays=Gold-red hilites
~That you don't share my experiences/opinions doesn't invalidate them
I wondered if it tasted like a hot dog. ~Phoenix
So, after having highlights put in on Wednesday, I DIY a BKT today.

I have very, VERY fine 3c/4a relaxer-free hair. It took forever, even with the help of my wonderful bf--about 4 hours total from showering to walking out of the bathroom. My hair is about BSL after the cut on Wednesday.

I was disappointed because I expected my hair to be coarser, less flyaway, with more body. It felt kind of sticky and product-y, but that feeling went away as it cooled, but returns with the application of heat. I recommend using a fan to blow the fumes off your face during the blowdrying portion. My eyes burned even though I had a fan blowing directly on my face.

Now, my hair is very soft, flat, no body...pretty much the same as it was pre-BKT. My hope is to wear my hair curly, so I'm not too concerned about this, but it might be of interest to other fine-haired curlies who want to wear their hair straightened. My hair is constantly in my face, and I can't stand it. Going to be a long 3 days.

I'll update as I progress through this process.

Baby fine, honey & caramel hilites, 4a/3c now 2b w/DIY BKT & LOVIN' it.
Cowash-V05 Extra Body
L'oreal EP Moisture-Rinse-out
JFLVM
BRHG mix w/
KCCC/KCKT (winter)
Clean-smelling-hair freak washes EOD; dry w/bowl diffuser
Cassia+henna+grays=Gold-red hilites
~That you don't share my experiences/opinions doesn't invalidate them
I wondered if it tasted like a hot dog. ~Phoenix

Last edited by ~Ghost Poster~; 10-31-2009 at 07:40 PM. Reason: ~Updated~
Since I took a shower so late in the day yesterday, thankfully I can skip it today, especially since I haven't figured out how I'm going to shower and keep my hair dry without using clips, pins, or anything to put my hair up.

It was horribly foggy today, of course, which is the worst possible thing for straightened hair. We almost never have ground fog here...are the gawds consipiring? Anyway, my hair was still very straight when I awakened and needed very little in the way of straightening, but I used my flat iron to try to bump the ends under in an attempt not to look so disheveled and to smooth out some wild areas. Before I walked out the door, whatever little style/curl I had put into my hair this morning was already gone. My hair was a flat, wispy, flyaway mess, falling into my eyes and face. I have to say, though, that my hair is not frizzing, even though there was fog in the air this morning. Granted, I wasn't out in the fog directly, as it had lifted by the time I got out of my car. But, in the past, my relaxed and flatironed hair would start to frizz inside the house before I even stepped outside if it was foggy.

So, fine-haired curlies, expect to look disheveled and unkempt during this initial 3-day period.

I should probably add that maybe I won't have this problem once I am able to use some product in my hair. I just assumed that keratin would be the ultimate volumizing/bodifying "product."

Baby fine, honey & caramel hilites, 4a/3c now 2b w/DIY BKT & LOVIN' it.
Cowash-V05 Extra Body
L'oreal EP Moisture-Rinse-out
JFLVM
BRHG mix w/
KCCC/KCKT (winter)
Clean-smelling-hair freak washes EOD; dry w/bowl diffuser
Cassia+henna+grays=Gold-red hilites
~That you don't share my experiences/opinions doesn't invalidate them
I wondered if it tasted like a hot dog. ~Phoenix

Last edited by ~Ghost Poster~; 11-01-2009 at 01:58 PM.
The first 4 days after the treatment the hair will be totally flat. After the first wash, you will see a big difference, you can style it then. At leas coming from my experience.
My experience has been great. Make sure you stick with the instructions, totally!!!
My friend is now roller setting her hair and is drying so gorgeous!! This is something I will do today.
I hope you enjoy it as much as I am. :-)
Finally, today, some weight and texture to my hair. I guess because it's getting "dirtier." One thing I do know is this: The humidity has been 90% down to 75% this morning, and my hair hasn't shown a single bit of frizz. I had to go out to take my son to school. I barely had to even comb my hair upon getting out of bed. My hair is NEVER like that on its own or with a relaxer. I even took a shower this morning--granted, it was a short one--but my hair didn't frizz one single bit. Understand this: my hair previously would frizz at the word "humidity" written on a piece of paper. I used to have to drive around with my AC on in my car all. the. time. to remove any humidity from the air inside the car.

Today, my hair is very nice, very straight. Yes, it's still very fine and limper than if it were coarser hair, but for the first time in a week, I'm not feeling like a freak. I gave it a little style with my flat iron just to polish it a little, and it looks great. Lots of movement. This tells me that I think I am right that it will be very nice when I am able to use some products in my hair.

Thanks, AphroDiva! The real test will be whether or not it relaxed my curls enough to wear it curly. I'm going to wash it tomorrow. Your hair had such beautiful pre-treatment curls, I don't know why you would ever want them relaxed, but I'm glad you're having fun with your hair! I'll update tomorrow!

Baby fine, honey & caramel hilites, 4a/3c now 2b w/DIY BKT & LOVIN' it.
Cowash-V05 Extra Body
L'oreal EP Moisture-Rinse-out
JFLVM
BRHG mix w/
KCCC/KCKT (winter)
Clean-smelling-hair freak washes EOD; dry w/bowl diffuser
Cassia+henna+grays=Gold-red hilites
~That you don't share my experiences/opinions doesn't invalidate them
I wondered if it tasted like a hot dog. ~Phoenix
All I can say is "WoW!" My 4a/3c hair is now 3b, soft, bouncy. No tangles. Quick, easy blow drying ~10 mins. Quick, easy flat ironing ~15 mins. Shiny. Lots of movement. I could have easily worn my hair curly today...I'm just not sure if KCKT and KCCC have any naturally occurring salt in them. Until I can find out for sure, I won't be using them.

I cowashed today using Suave Naturals Aloe and Waterlily. My rinse-out was V05 Extra Body since I have boxes and boxes of this stuff and I love the scent. I initially tried VO5 Moisturizing "Free me Freesia" conditioner as my cowash, but I could feel my hair's cuticles stand up immediately on contact. I noticed it before, but I thought it was my imagination--so, no more of that.

For volume and body I used Samy's Fat Hair "0" calories thickening creme and Garnier Fructis XXL volume thickening mousse. Upon starting to blow dry, I did notice that sticky, producty feeling that I noticed the other day when applying the BKT. But, my hair always reacts this way to most products. I don't know what it is. My hair still feels a little producty now that it is dry, but that' probably because I put quite a bit of the mousse and thickening creme in.

All in all, I'm quite happy with the outcome. It was well worth the $$ and application effort. I don't know the long-term hair effects though, so I hesitate to say I "recommend" it, but there are probably some others who have been living their dream of more manageable hair for longer and can speak to this. In fact, I would love to hear from someone who has been BKTing for more than 6 months.

I'll continue to update this as I try different things and progress to different stages.

Baby fine, honey & caramel hilites, 4a/3c now 2b w/DIY BKT & LOVIN' it.
Cowash-V05 Extra Body
L'oreal EP Moisture-Rinse-out
JFLVM
BRHG mix w/
KCCC/KCKT (winter)
Clean-smelling-hair freak washes EOD; dry w/bowl diffuser
Cassia+henna+grays=Gold-red hilites
~That you don't share my experiences/opinions doesn't invalidate them
I wondered if it tasted like a hot dog. ~Phoenix
Throughout the day I've noticed that the sticky, product-y feeling has not gone away and is more pronounced than the icky, sticky feeling I got when from applying the BKT. I'm attributing this to one of the thickener stylers that I used today--my guess is the Samy thickening creme. I got the sense that it might be sticky when I first applied it to my hair. It's actually kind of weighing my hair down in a bad way, so I won't be using this product again. Next time I straighten, I'll try the Garnier alone.

Baby fine, honey & caramel hilites, 4a/3c now 2b w/DIY BKT & LOVIN' it.
Cowash-V05 Extra Body
L'oreal EP Moisture-Rinse-out
JFLVM
BRHG mix w/
KCCC/KCKT (winter)
Clean-smelling-hair freak washes EOD; dry w/bowl diffuser
Cassia+henna+grays=Gold-red hilites
~That you don't share my experiences/opinions doesn't invalidate them
I wondered if it tasted like a hot dog. ~Phoenix
pics?
para los gustos se hicieron los colores

i has no hair type? (medium, f-iii), normal porosity, LOW elasticity.
CG journey began 2/8/09 - 4-08-09.. and then mod cg 4/14/09 -... 03/02/10- Barely CG but I like CG products
wash with Low Poo or Poo
condition with GVP Conditioning Balm or CJ BC Daily, Loreal Color Vive for Color Treated Hair Thats Normal
Leave ins- Garnier S&S; Marrakesh oil
style with - Ohm SHP; KCCC- BRHG or Boots- KCCC- BRHG; CIAB; CCCC
Protein- GVP Joico K-Pak
Play with ACV
Thanks, AphroDiva! The real test will be whether or not it relaxed my curls enough to wear it curly. I'm going to wash it tomorrow. Your hair had such beautiful pre-treatment curls, I don't know why you would ever want them relaxed, but I'm glad you're having fun with your hair! I'll update tomorrow!
Originally Posted by ~Ghost Poster~

Thank You Ghost Poster! I had a love and hate relationship with my curls, for many reasons. If I wear hair curly I want it to be very long length, my actual length make me look aged, and washed out.
Also, the humidity was transforming my hair into a puffball after a couple of hours.
I had to get my hair wet every morning and do my routine to activate my curls.
I will go back to curly hair once my length is where I want it to be...You'll see
But for now I am in hair heaven
pics?
Originally Posted by burgundy_locks
Ha! I was wondering when someone would ask this! We'll see. I'm pretty private, but I guess I could do something from the back. I'm not going to wash for another day or so, then I'll see if it's worth taking some curly pics to go with the straight pics.

Baby fine, honey & caramel hilites, 4a/3c now 2b w/DIY BKT & LOVIN' it.
Cowash-V05 Extra Body
L'oreal EP Moisture-Rinse-out
JFLVM
BRHG mix w/
KCCC/KCKT (winter)
Clean-smelling-hair freak washes EOD; dry w/bowl diffuser
Cassia+henna+grays=Gold-red hilites
~That you don't share my experiences/opinions doesn't invalidate them
I wondered if it tasted like a hot dog. ~Phoenix
Thanks, AphroDiva! The real test will be whether or not it relaxed my curls enough to wear it curly. I'm going to wash it tomorrow. Your hair had such beautiful pre-treatment curls, I don't know why you would ever want them relaxed, but I'm glad you're having fun with your hair! I'll update tomorrow!
Originally Posted by ~Ghost Poster~

Thank You Ghost Poster! I had a love and hate relationship with my curls, for many reasons. If I wear hair curly I want it to be very long length, my actual length make me look aged, and washed out.
Also, the humidity was transforming my hair into a puffball after a couple of hours.
I had to get my hair wet every morning and do my routine to activate my curls.
I will go back to curly hair once my length is where I want it to be...You'll see
But for now I am in hair heaven
Originally Posted by AphroDiva
I TOTALLY understand. That's exactly what my curls do to me. It's like I age 20 years when my hair is short and curly. Some people can pull it off, but my facial features demand big/long hair. My hair is very, very dark brown and my skin is very, very light = major skin washout. It's so strange that someone's natural coloring would be such a mismatch.

So what styling products do you use? Do you have problems with a sticky, coated feeling? I just can't seem to find anything that is BKT-safe and is good for my fine, limp hair.

Baby fine, honey & caramel hilites, 4a/3c now 2b w/DIY BKT & LOVIN' it.
Cowash-V05 Extra Body
L'oreal EP Moisture-Rinse-out
JFLVM
BRHG mix w/
KCCC/KCKT (winter)
Clean-smelling-hair freak washes EOD; dry w/bowl diffuser
Cassia+henna+grays=Gold-red hilites
~That you don't share my experiences/opinions doesn't invalidate them
I wondered if it tasted like a hot dog. ~Phoenix
Just reading through the posts. First time I read about KCCC and KCKT may have naturally occuring salts in them? Does anyone know if they do - i have been using them since my Coppolla Keratin was done. I feel after two months that most of the Keratin has worn off and I wondered if that had anything to do with it?
3B dark brown shoulder length
Co-wash, Living Proof No frizz, Biolage Gel, Giovanni vitapro fusion leave in
Today is overcast, humid, and my hair is still stick straight even after being out in it. In fact, the humidity in the shower didn't even affect it much--which is unheard of for my hair. Still with the sticky film on my hair though.

Is this the answer for fine hair? Not for me. My hair is still limp and lifeless, unable to hold a curl. But, before, with relaxers, my hair was limp, lifeless, damaged, AND frizzy to boot. So, it's the best answer for curly hair that I have found thus far--and I've tried it all. It won't transform your fine hair into that strong, coarse, flowing "horse" hair--don't be fooled. At least it didn't for me. But, it definitely addresses my curl/frizz issues.

Another warning: L'oreal Ever Pure products may contain sodium chloride. I found it in their volumizing conditioner today. I don't know if any of their other products have it.

Baby fine, honey & caramel hilites, 4a/3c now 2b w/DIY BKT & LOVIN' it.
Cowash-V05 Extra Body
L'oreal EP Moisture-Rinse-out
JFLVM
BRHG mix w/
KCCC/KCKT (winter)
Clean-smelling-hair freak washes EOD; dry w/bowl diffuser
Cassia+henna+grays=Gold-red hilites
~That you don't share my experiences/opinions doesn't invalidate them
I wondered if it tasted like a hot dog. ~Phoenix
Just reading through the posts. First time I read about KCCC and KCKT may have naturally occuring salts in them? Does anyone know if they do - i have been using them since my Coppolla Keratin was done. I feel after two months that most of the Keratin has worn off and I wondered if that had anything to do with it?
Originally Posted by morningstar
If it was your treatment was done on virgin hair (unrelaxed or uncolored), that's probably why your treatment wore off in 2 mos. That's standard based on everything I've read.

I doubt that KCCC/KCKT have salt. I was just thinking about how some plants (like celery, for example) are high in sodium, and I'm wondering if this type of naturally-occurring salt may have the same effect as sodium chloride--table salt. I see so many products that have sodium this or that in them, I'm not sure if they're BKT-safe. I read in my BKT instructions that swimming in ocean water is fine...that makes no sense to me, so maybe I'm misunderstanding this whole sodium chloride thing.

Baby fine, honey & caramel hilites, 4a/3c now 2b w/DIY BKT & LOVIN' it.
Cowash-V05 Extra Body
L'oreal EP Moisture-Rinse-out
JFLVM
BRHG mix w/
KCCC/KCKT (winter)
Clean-smelling-hair freak washes EOD; dry w/bowl diffuser
Cassia+henna+grays=Gold-red hilites
~That you don't share my experiences/opinions doesn't invalidate them
I wondered if it tasted like a hot dog. ~Phoenix

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