Swapper Complaints Thread (aka: BAD swaps!)

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Hi Folks,

This is not about a bad swap. I am posting here to see what sellers do in this situation. I sent out my buyer's products on March 15th. As of the 30th, she still didn't have them. We spoke at the beginning of this week and I told her I would track them down no matter what. It is now several days, phone calls, in person inquiry, and research later. Her post office has no updated info. My post office said that on the 23rd, the package was damaged in Illinois (it was on its way to WI). That was all they could tell me. They don't know if its still on its way or coming back to NY (my city and state). They told me to call her post office, as it was possible the package was sitting there. Her post office didn't have access to that update (it is being tracked via delivery confirmation) but the woman said that if it was damaged, it would not arrive in WI. It would go straight to Georgia. She said I could fill out a claim to receive the package back. I said no, b/c at this point, I would guess the items in the package are useless and we don't even know for sure if its Georgia.

When the buyer wrote to me, she thought it had been delivered to the wrong address and requested a refund if that was the case. I said if it had gone to the wrong person, I would absolutely honor that. Then I looked it up on Paypal and saw that I had paid for postage online via Paypal and the correct address was right there in the receipt. So the package was damaged in transit and no insurance was purchased for this package. Has anyone been in this situation? Also, FYI, I shipped the products in a real shipping box (I know some people re-use pop corn boxes, light bulb boxes etc) and I seal every product in a large zip loc bag with packaging tape. I also used "stuffing" around the items. Another user referred to me as the "Packaging Queen." I say all this to say that I did the best I could as far as packaging the items correctly.Thoughts? Is there a protocol here?
Im not sure but if it was paid for without any insurance and the buyer never received said items, I think a refund would be proper?

On your end a claim with the USPS? Not sure, hope someone else chimes in
Im not sure but if it was paid for without any insurance and the buyer never received said items, I think a refund would be proper?

On your end a claim with the USPS? Not sure, hope someone else chimes in
Originally Posted by Cerendipity
+1, me personally I would issue a refund and work it out with the post office. The buyer can't request a refund from the post office nor can she file a claim. You as the seller can and should.

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Im not sure but if it was paid for without any insurance and the buyer never received said items, I think a refund would be proper?

On your end a claim with the USPS? Not sure, hope someone else chimes in
Originally Posted by Cerendipity
+1, me personally I would issue a refund and work it out with the post office. The buyer can't request a refund from the post office nor can she file a claim. You as the seller can and should.

vIa tHiS rAgEdY aSs pHoNe
Originally Posted by Chicago Kinks
Thanks for the feedback, folks.

Again, no insurance was purchased. The P.O. does not give refunds or promise to do anything for you if you don't purchase insurance. If I was supposed to know to do that as a seller on NC, I didn't know. No buyer has ever purchased insurance for me as a buyer on here. You can file a claim, if you have an insurance. The woman I spoke to said the only thing I can do now is file a claim with Damaged Packages in ATL, although this does not mean I will ever see the package or see it anytime soon. It just means, if it was damaged and sent there, they'll let me know at some point. Right now, nobody has any information for me.

If anyone has experienced this situation on NC, please let me know. Thanks again, folks.
If I paid for products that I didn't receive through no fault of my own, I would expect a refund --whether it was from a company or a person. I've been in a situation before where I mailed out a package to a customer and didn't insure it and the package never arrived. I had to refund the customer because I was the one who didn't insure the package when it was my responsibility to do so.

Also, if you received your payment via Paypal, you may as well just refund it because they will refund it anyway if/when this person files a claim with them for items not received.
Auntie Bubbs likes this.
2C/3A, fine, higher porosity.
JLeigh is right. Unless the person sent payment as a gift and not as "goods and services," she can ask Paypal for refund, and they'll issue one, so you'll be refunding her no matter what.
As a seller both here and on Ebay, I've always issued refunds when a product doesn't arrive. Shipping confirmation is always necessary for your protection so you can be 100% certain a package didn't arrive before you issue a refund, but once I'm certain it in fact didn't arrive, I have not choice but to issue the refund, becuase its the right thing to do. The buyer didn't do anything wrong, and doesn't deserve to be penalized because the package went awry. If I didn't purchase insurance, that is my gamble to take when I ship.
When you fill out the shipping form on Paypal, it asks, "do you wish to purchase insurance?" so the question is on the shipper, not the buyer. The only way the shipper can put this back on the buyer is to do what Ebay does, have the seller ask the buyer, "do you want to buy insurance? It's X amount extra." If the buyer says no, then you're covered and can say, no refund if the package goes missing. I don't think the majority of us here on NC do that because we aren't selling for profit, just for fun.

I'm sorry your package went missing It doesn't happen very often, it's a bummer that happened to you and your buyer.
That's me with FSG as my styler!!

3b. fine & thick, coarse, dry, medium porosity. Sucks up product and loves ACVs! FSG is my HG!

Currently using:
Low Poo: TJ's Refresh No Poo: CoWash w/VO-5; Sonoma Soap Company sulfate-free poo
RO: Yes to Cuc; SSC Lavender Condish; Sally GVP LI: Donna Marie Miracle D&C
Style: FSG w/Aussie Instant Freeze & CIAB
Thanks for all the feedback, everyone. I sell on Ebay too and this has never happened in my life. I actually always assumed insurance was expensive. I had no idea how much it cost, until this happened and I started using it. Of course, I will use it from now on. I certainly don't think the buyer should be penalized. I just thought maybe I wouldn't have to be either. Thanks again.
Hi Ladies,

I have a general question. If you are contacted by someone on multiple occasions and then they never reply back to you after an initial exchange or one where more than one PM was made (by both parties), does this warrant a mention in this thread? I personally find it rude that after the initial contact, say a zip code for shipping estimates was sent, to never respond. However, I am torn if this warrants a mention here. It is definitely a communication issue that could prevent one from accepting other offers if you are waiting to hear back. Thank you for your thoughts.
James Baldwin
A Talk To Teachers
[...]
one of the paradoxes of education [is] that precisely at the point when you begin to develop a conscience, you must find yourself at war with your society. It is your responsibility to change society
[...]

That IS tricky. I know it can be frustrating, but sometimes a communication issue like that is due to someone's circumstances. Obviously the problem is that you don't know what those may be because they aren't communicating with you and you're left in the dark and you're understandably frustrated and upset.

I'd say, it could warrant a mention here depending on how much time has passed. Once a reasonable amount of time has passed, it's up to you if you want to mention the transaction here as a "bad swap." It's not a swap per se, but it is an interaction that you had a reasonable expectation would conclude in a swap, and it ended less than favorably; so, if you've tried to resolve it amicably and were unable to do so - for whatever reason, including lack of communication on the part of the other party - then I believe you have right to mention it here.
Whether you disclose all the details is up to you. I'd emphasize that a "reasonable amount of time" should include enough time to factor in any emergencies that the other person might have had to deal with that you could be unaware of.

I once had to wait 2 nearly weeks for someone to get back to me about a swap; she finally did, but it was frustrating to wait that long. She claimed bad weather, and it was true that the area she was located in was experiencing bad weather conditions at the time, but it was also true that 2 or 3 other members were experiencing issues with the person at the same time and we only knew of each other's experiences because of this thread. So I say alway give someone the benefit of the doubt, because real life does happen, but be careful to look out for your own interests as well.
cocodej likes this.
That's me with FSG as my styler!!

3b. fine & thick, coarse, dry, medium porosity. Sucks up product and loves ACVs! FSG is my HG!

Currently using:
Low Poo: TJ's Refresh No Poo: CoWash w/VO-5; Sonoma Soap Company sulfate-free poo
RO: Yes to Cuc; SSC Lavender Condish; Sally GVP LI: Donna Marie Miracle D&C
Style: FSG w/Aussie Instant Freeze & CIAB
Thank you AB!

I should definitely factor real circumstances in as well. I guess I just find lack of communication extremely rude, compounded with this being the second time. I think I will just not take this person seriously in the future.

However, if I knew this was occurring with others, I would probably put the offender here. But, I do not know all of the variables and will just have to act accordingly going forward. Thanks again.
James Baldwin
A Talk To Teachers
[...]
one of the paradoxes of education [is] that precisely at the point when you begin to develop a conscience, you must find yourself at war with your society. It is your responsibility to change society
[...]

Hope it works out, Coco. I'd say if 2 weeks go by and you hear nothing, that's a decent amount of time to wait before you may need to just give up, shrug and move on, frustrating as that is. I've had it happen alot too. Someone tells me they want something I put out for swap, and then they just vanish, instead of doing the adult thing and PMing me to say they changed their mind.

Also, I'd say if you're selling an item, you have no obligation to hold it for her, since she's the one not getting back to you. If she comes back to you later and says, "but I wanted that" you are perfectly justified in saying, "then you should have responded in a timely manner, I PM'd you X times and you didn't respond, so I sold it to someone who did."
alsaxon likes this.
That's me with FSG as my styler!!

3b. fine & thick, coarse, dry, medium porosity. Sucks up product and loves ACVs! FSG is my HG!

Currently using:
Low Poo: TJ's Refresh No Poo: CoWash w/VO-5; Sonoma Soap Company sulfate-free poo
RO: Yes to Cuc; SSC Lavender Condish; Sally GVP LI: Donna Marie Miracle D&C
Style: FSG w/Aussie Instant Freeze & CIAB

Last edited by Auntie Bubbs; 05-17-2012 at 11:33 AM.
So I unfortunately have to report an unsatisfactory situation with MKC.

She has purchased FSG from me in the past and that transaction went fine. She contacted me about 2 weeks ago or so and said she really liked it and wanted to buy a lot more. We settled on 32 oz (in 4 8oz bottles, because she wanted to try one 8oz batch with aloe vera in it).
I had to get a shipping quote for her because I didn't have on hand a Priority box that would ship 4 8oz bottles, and wanted to get her the best price - I could have just charged her the Medium flat rate box price, but I thought I could charge her less. It took me less than a day to get her a quote of $8 for shipping, so on the 18th I sent her the final total quote for the gel, including shipping and told her I'd mix up the gel and have it ready to go as soon as she sent payment.

From the 18th til today, the 27th, I never heard back from her. I PM'd her with a shipping quote, I PM'd her with a message saying the gel was ready to go as soon as she sent payment, and I PM'd her on the 22nd reminding her that I'd responded to every PM she sent me promptly, and held up my end of the transaction at each step, and that the courteous thing for her to do would be to send me a response, even if she'd changed her mind. To date, I have heard absolutely nothing.

To me, it's fine if someone changes their mind, but why not just say so? Why let me go to the trouble of going out and getting the bottles (I usually make 6oz sample sizes, I had to go buy 8oz bottles just for her), cooking up gel and personalizing the batches with additives per her request for what she wanted in the gel, and then leaving me stuck with the product on my hands?
I realize I should've waited to make the product, so that's on me. But I just wanted to cut down on the waiting time for her - FSG needs a day to cool after it's cooked, IMO, so I cooked it up after she confirmed she wanted it, and she'd already bought samples from me with no problem.

So, I don't classify this as a "bad swap," but I do call it a negative experience and very discourteous. This kind of behavior just hurts our community because when members make samples or sell samples, we do it to help other CGers, and when you take advantage of that, you ultimately hurt the CG community, because it certainly makes me think twice about doing this again in the future, especially with new members.
alsaxon likes this.
That's me with FSG as my styler!!

3b. fine & thick, coarse, dry, medium porosity. Sucks up product and loves ACVs! FSG is my HG!

Currently using:
Low Poo: TJ's Refresh No Poo: CoWash w/VO-5; Sonoma Soap Company sulfate-free poo
RO: Yes to Cuc; SSC Lavender Condish; Sally GVP LI: Donna Marie Miracle D&C
Style: FSG w/Aussie Instant Freeze & CIAB
Just a heads up about insuring things through USPS. I have been selling/buying on Etsy and eBay for a long time and ship lots of stuff.
Insurance doesn't guarantee you will get anything back should the package not turn up. I learned this the hard way.
You need an actual receipt showing what you paid for the item. NO receipt....your claim is denied. If the Post Office determines that the item(s) weren't properly packaged...they deny your claim. That can be subjective and totally their call.
If it is something "liquid"...like alot of the stuff swapped here and you don't state that it is "liquid"....you guessed it, claim denied.
IMO....as a seller it is my responsibility to ensure the buyer gets the items they bought. If the Post Office messes it up....I refund. This is not the buyers/swappers fault. Your beef is with the Post Office.
Thank you AB!

I should definitely factor real circumstances in as well. I guess I just find lack of communication extremely rude, compounded with this being the second time. I think I will just not take this person seriously in the future.

However, if I knew this was occurring with others, I would probably put the offender here. But, I do not know all of the variables and will just have to act accordingly going forward. Thanks again.
Originally Posted by cocodej
Yep, that's my take. Yes, life happens, but some folks are just...rude and inconsiderate. We all like to think the best of people, but so many people seem to think there's nothing wrong with wasting another person's time. That's more often the case, than "life happens".

If you take the time to express interest in an offer, and you got somebody researching shipping costs, you need to respond...even if you're no longer interested.

I've done ONE sale on this board...and the transaction was perfect. But that's it. There are too many regulars on 4a I can swap with/sell to.
cocodej likes this.
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I hope this does not turn into a bad swap. I think I'm probably anxious, but when I have a swap or sale going on I make sure I am available to be contacted. Here is the scenario. I was contacted about some items I had on the swap board. The person told me what they had and what they wanted to swap for. I replied right away and said less do it. This was a Wednesday. It was Sunday when I heard back. I told her I would ship her item Tuesday since Monday was a holiday. I did so and sent her a tracking number Tuesday asking if she sent my item. Still haven't heard back. Just sent her a new PM. At this point its not a bad swap. I just feel a message should be sent when the item ships. How long should I wait after not receiving the item before posting a bad swap. A week, 2 Weeks? I hope it does not turn out that way, but I thought I might as well ask now. Communication is key.

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"The most beautiful people we have known are those who have known defeat, known suffering, known struggle, known loss, and have found their way out of the depths. These persons have an appreciation, a sensitivity, and an understanding of life that fills them with compassion, gentleness, and a deep loving concern. Beautiful people do not just happen." --- Elisabeth Kubler-Ross
It sucks when people don't take communication as seriously as you do with regards to swaps/sales.
Alsaxon, it looks like it took your swap partner 4 days to respond the first time, so I'd say it may take her 4 or 5 days this second time, too. Not the best gauge, I know, but that's about all you can on. If you haven't heard from her in 5 days (not counting the holiday), then I'd report her here. Especially since you've mailed out your items already.
Is she a new member, or one with few posts, or both?

I know other people may not agree with me, but from experience, my few bad transactions on here have been with members who had few posts and had not been members long, which leads me to rethink conducting transactions with anyone who's post-count is under 50 and who hasn't been a member longer than a month or so. (That's my own personal rule, but I don't even look at a swap posting after I see that it's been made by a member not meeting my criteria.) I also refuse to submit payment via Paypal as a "gift" - newbies (or scammers) will try to avoid Paypal fees by asking you to do this; legit swappers/sellers know that you can't sue for a Paypal refund due to not receiving your goods if you send money as a gift.
CurlyInTheFog likes this.
That's me with FSG as my styler!!

3b. fine & thick, coarse, dry, medium porosity. Sucks up product and loves ACVs! FSG is my HG!

Currently using:
Low Poo: TJ's Refresh No Poo: CoWash w/VO-5; Sonoma Soap Company sulfate-free poo
RO: Yes to Cuc; SSC Lavender Condish; Sally GVP LI: Donna Marie Miracle D&C
Style: FSG w/Aussie Instant Freeze & CIAB

Last edited by Auntie Bubbs; 05-31-2012 at 11:23 AM.
It sucks when people don't take communication as seriously as you do with regards to swaps/sales.
Alsaxon, it looks like it took your swap partner 4 days to respond the first time, so I'd say it may take her 4 or 5 days this second time, too. Not the best gauge, I know, but that's about all you can on. If you haven't heard from her in 5 days (not counting the holiday), then I'd report her here. Especially since you've mailed out your items already.
Is she a new member, or one with few posts, or both?

I know other people may not agree with me, but from experience, my few bad transactions on here have been with members who had few posts and had not been members long, which leads me to rethink conducting transactions with anyone who's post-count is under 50 and who hasn't been a member longer than a month or so. (That's my own personal rule, but I don't even look at a swap posting after I see that it's been made by a member not meeting my criteria.) I also refuse to submit payment via Paypal as a "gift" - newbies (or scammers) will try to avoid Paypal fees by asking you to do this; legit swappers/sellers know that you can't sue for a Paypal refund due to not receiving your goods if you send money as a gift.
Originally Posted by Auntie Bubbs
it's really my fault cuz I didn't follow my gut. When it took her 4 days to respond something told me just to forget about it, but I really wanted to try the product she had. I normally try to deal only with well established members with a good amount of activity. She's been active since may 2011 with 24 swaps. What sold me is that I saw she participated in a secret santa thing on here and all went well. Every time I ignore my gut I learn a valuable lesson. She'll probably contact me a week later saying she is shipping my product. She's enjoying her's right now as it's been delivered. Even if she comes through. I won't be swapping with her again. I'm not saying you need to be glued to your computer but at minimal you need to tell the person immediately when you will be shipping, tracking number needs to be provided the same day you ship and you should check in within 2 to 3 days of sending to make sure all was well. Am I being unreasonable. If you can't do that then you need to be on the receiving end only.
Album: http://s136.photobucket.com/albums/q165/alsaxon/Hair/



"The most beautiful people we have known are those who have known defeat, known suffering, known struggle, known loss, and have found their way out of the depths. These persons have an appreciation, a sensitivity, and an understanding of life that fills them with compassion, gentleness, and a deep loving concern. Beautiful people do not just happen." --- Elisabeth Kubler-Ross
It sucks when people don't take communication as seriously as you do with regards to swaps/sales.
Alsaxon, it looks like it took your swap partner 4 days to respond the first time, so I'd say it may take her 4 or 5 days this second time, too. Not the best gauge, I know, but that's about all you can on. If you haven't heard from her in 5 days (not counting the holiday), then I'd report her here. Especially since you've mailed out your items already.
Is she a new member, or one with few posts, or both?

I know other people may not agree with me, but from experience, my few bad transactions on here have been with members who had few posts and had not been members long, which leads me to rethink conducting transactions with anyone who's post-count is under 50 and who hasn't been a member longer than a month or so. (That's my own personal rule, but I don't even look at a swap posting after I see that it's been made by a member not meeting my criteria.) I also refuse to submit payment via Paypal as a "gift" - newbies (or scammers) will try to avoid Paypal fees by asking you to do this; legit swappers/sellers know that you can't sue for a Paypal refund due to not receiving your goods if you send money as a gift.
Originally Posted by Auntie Bubbs
it's really my fault cuz I didn't follow my gut. When it took her 4 days to respond something told me just to forget about it, but I really wanted to try the product she had. I normally try to deal only with well established members with a good amount of activity. She's been active since may 2011 with 24 swaps. What sold me is that I saw she participated in a secret santa thing on here and all went well. Every time I ignore my gut I learn a valuable lesson. She'll probably contact me a week later saying she is shipping my product. She's enjoying her's right now as it's been delivered. Even if she comes through. I won't be swapping with her again. I'm not saying you need to be glued to your computer but at minimal you need to tell the person immediately when you will be shipping, tracking number needs to be provided the same day you ship and you should check in within 2 to 3 days of sending to make sure all was well. Am I being unreasonable. If you can't do that then you need to be on the receiving end only.
Originally Posted by alsaxon
hmmm. i could have sworn there was a way to track if your message had been read. i guess you need to mark that option when sending your PM.
Album: http://s136.photobucket.com/albums/q165/alsaxon/Hair/



"The most beautiful people we have known are those who have known defeat, known suffering, known struggle, known loss, and have found their way out of the depths. These persons have an appreciation, a sensitivity, and an understanding of life that fills them with compassion, gentleness, and a deep loving concern. Beautiful people do not just happen." --- Elisabeth Kubler-Ross
I don't think you're being unreasonable It's common courtesy and not at all unreasonable to expect to be treated with common courtesy when acting in a like manner.

I think you have to change your settings to have a read receipt returned to you when your PM's are read. I need to do the same, come to think of it I would like to know when my PMs are read too, since I hate having people contact me about products and then drop off the face of the earth. I guess their mommas never taught them manners.
That's me with FSG as my styler!!

3b. fine & thick, coarse, dry, medium porosity. Sucks up product and loves ACVs! FSG is my HG!

Currently using:
Low Poo: TJ's Refresh No Poo: CoWash w/VO-5; Sonoma Soap Company sulfate-free poo
RO: Yes to Cuc; SSC Lavender Condish; Sally GVP LI: Donna Marie Miracle D&C
Style: FSG w/Aussie Instant Freeze & CIAB
I don't think you're being unreasonable It's common courtesy and not at all unreasonable to expect to be treated with common courtesy when acting in a like manner.

I think you have to change your settings to have a read receipt returned to you when your PM's are read. I need to do the same, come to think of it I would like to know when my PMs are read too, since I hate having people contact me about products and then drop off the face of the earth. I guess their mommas never taught them manners.
Originally Posted by Auntie Bubbs
Thanks for your help Auntie Bibbs! I'll report back on how this ends up, good or bad.
Album: http://s136.photobucket.com/albums/q165/alsaxon/Hair/



"The most beautiful people we have known are those who have known defeat, known suffering, known struggle, known loss, and have found their way out of the depths. These persons have an appreciation, a sensitivity, and an understanding of life that fills them with compassion, gentleness, and a deep loving concern. Beautiful people do not just happen." --- Elisabeth Kubler-Ross

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