Tangled mess! Please help!

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Okay, I just started CG about 2 weeks ago. I cannot get a comb through my hair for the life of me! Haven't timed it but seems to take about 20 minutes or more (feels like forever) to comb through it in the shower. No joke! To be fair, my hair is thick and long but this amount of time it's taking to comb makes me wonder what I'm doing wrong. I did realize I was protein sensitive so I quit the protein. I even eliminated everything with aloe and have been braiding it from one wash til the next to prevent more tangling from it rubbing on my back. The straw-like feeling got better after quitting protein but it's still so tangled after co washing! My scalp also seems to get greasy quickly when hair is dry and it itches before my next wash but I expected that during the CG transition.

What else could I possibly be doing wrong? Could there be something in my products I'm missing that is doing this to my hair? I'm only currently using Suave Sunshine & Pantene Curl Defining Mousse. The last time I co washed also tried Suave Green Apple which has glycerin but it seemed worse. I just noticed a polyquat in my mousse...could that be the problem even though it never bothered me before CG? Or something else entirely?



Suave Naturals Everlasting Sunshine:
Ingredient Attributes: silicone free, sulfate free, paraben free, protein free, glycerin free
Water (Aqua), Cetyl Alcohol, Stearamidopropyl Dimethylamine, Fragrance (Parfum), Lactic Acid, Potassium Chloride, Disodium EDTA, PEG-150 Distearate, 2-Bromo-2-Nitropropane-1, 3-Diol Methylchloroisothiazolinone, Methylisothiazolinone, Polysorbate 20, Euterpe Oleracea Fruit Oil, Vanilla Planifolia Fruit Extract, Passiflora Incarnata Flower Extract, Yellow 5 (CI 19140), Red 33 (CI 17200).

Pantene Curl Defining Mousse:
Ingredient Attributes: silicone free, paraben free, protein free, glycerin free
Water, Isobutane, Polyquaternium 4, Propane, Propylene Glycol, C9 11 Pareth 8, Fragrance, DMDM Hydantoin, Disodium EDTA, Panthenyl Ethyl Ether, Panthenol, Citric Acid
CG since 3/1/13
3B; Low porosity, Coarse, & Extremely Protein Sensitive
Very high density, waist length

Co wash: Suave Clarifying or Sun Ripened Strawberry
RO: Sun Ripened Strawberry, TN, or TN w/ veg glycerin
Sealer: apricot oil
Styler: 4 Naturals Spring Back Custard, Pantene Curl Defining Mousse, or BB "Mudd"
Using a hard water filter, microfiber towel, & silk head scarves & pillowcases

Avoiding: protein, coconut, & parabens
You need to use more moisturizing products. There's nothing in your products to provide you with moisture your hair so desperately needs.

My stylist recommends avoiding mousse, as the propellent can be very drying.

I'd question the low porosity, too. Because low porosity hair is really smooth, it doesn't have the tendency to tangle like hair that is more porous. While I keep my hair shorter and get haircuts every six weeks, the only time my hair tangles is when I use an ingredient it doesn't like (castor or mineral oil.)
3a (Corkicelli), highlighted, fine, low porosity
modified CG, since April '07
CG since 3/11/08

SE PA

HGs: Anything Sevi; Curly Kinks Satin Roots, Curlycue ReNew and Coil Jam; homemade FSG and okra gel; soap bars; UFD Curly Magic; Botanical Spirits Jellies, CJ Repair Me, Marie Dean Leave Ins and Curl Creams
I can't remember which one it is, but one of the ingredients in the Suave is a protein. If you're protein sensitive that could be the problem. I initially loved it, but after continued use I ended up with the tangled mess you describe.

Sent from my SPH-L710 using CurlTalk App
The only suave naturals that has protein is the coconut one. Nothing in the one she listed is a protein.

I agree with doing more moisture. Get a really nourishing conditioner without silicones (biolage or GVP conditioning balm and curl junkie curl rehab are popular ones) and let it sit. Use a different RO after you co wash - Tresseme Naturals is common, or you could use your DT as an RO until it improves.

Agree also on the porosity thing. My hair is low-normal porosity & never tangles unless I have hard water mineral buildup or used an ingredient it doesn't like.

What makes you think yours is protein sensitive? I can't see your siggy if your properties are listed so sorry if this is a dumb question lol.
fine, thin, normal/(low?) porosity. Mod-CG. Usually I can't co-wash more than 1x a week, & sometimes I have to use T-Gel in rotation due to scalp issues.

Co-wash: VO5 Volumizing
Poo: Giovanni 50:50
RO:TN, Nexxus Youth Renewal, Alba Coconut
LI: KCKT
PT: gelatin PT, ION EC
Stylers: Giovanni mousse, TIGI Curls Rock amplifier (a-cone), Curls Rock Strong Hold Mousse
Gels: SCC spray gel

Thank y'all for your replies! Okay (deep breath). I apologize in advance and I'll make you some cause this is probably going to be long!

K, I'm throwing the mousse out the window! It was good to me pre-CG so I'm sad about the breakup though. I buy products in bulk because I go through them so quickly since I have A LOT of hair (see pics) but that's what the swap boards are for, right? Right! I think I was talking about this with you recently, Kathy? I don't know anyone with the amount of hair I have, though I'm sure there is someone... somewhere... I'm thinking the length and density contributes at least some to my tangle problem. I've been having a hard time just getting the co wash to even reach my scalp through my hair, and also a hard time rinsing it out, which is probably another problem not related to this thread.

Lcl, I'm posting my sig in this message but as far as porosity; my hair floated in the float test. Which I know can be inaccurate, so I did the slip n' slide test and it was squeaky with no bumps. Also, my hair takes a looong time to wet in the shower. And the last time I had a cut the owner who was cutting my hair called another stylist over to look at "how healthy" my hair was, which I understand low porosity hair to be. And my hair hates anything with protein or aloe in it which I guess is possibly another sign of low porosity (my hair got super straw-like with the Suave Coconut too, MrsBachemin). Does it sounds like I am correct in all this? I've always had to take time to detangle but it's definitely worse lately.

So, I need to drown with moisture? Sounds good! Thank you for the recommendations. I figured I needed a better and more moisturizing RO...but it's so daunting! It seems everything I look at has ingredients I'm trying to avoid, whether it be protein, coconut oil, or aloe. This might sound crazy picky... but I'm also trying to avoid parabens since an illness, which is limiting me even more. The Tresemme Naturals has the aloe and avocado low on the list so I'm thinking that may be my best bet. I also recently purchased glycerin to try that. I guess that is supposed to be moisturizing when mixed in with a RO? I think I understand it can cause frizz in low dewpoints but I guess some people can tolerate it even in winter? I'm just desperate for some slip! Here are some other products I've been contemplating:

Yes To Carrots Conditioner, Pampering, for Normal to Dry Hair - I know jojoba oil has protein though
Water (Aqua), Dead Sea Water (Maris Aqua), Silt (Maris Limus), Magnesium Chloride, Chamomila Recutita (Chamomile) Extract, Simmondsia Chinensis (Jojoba) Oil, Olea Europaea (Olive) Oil, Prunus Amygdalus Dulcis (Sweet Almond) Oil, Calendula Officinalis Oil, Daucus Carota (Carrot) Seed Oil, Daucus Carota (Carrot) Juice, Cucurbita Pepo (Pumpkin) Juice, Ipomoera Batatas (Sweet Potato) Extract, Cucumis Melo (Melon) Extract, Citrus Aurantium Dulcis (Orange) Fruit Extract, Honey (Mel) Extract, Fragrance

Aubrey Organics Primrose Tangle Go Lusterizing Spray
Witch hazel (natural herbal extract), deionized water, mucopolysaccharides, organic lavender oil, lanolin, vegetable glycerin, organic evening primrose oil and panthenol (vitamin B-5).

L'Oreal Everstyle Curl Defining Gel
Aqua/Water, Sorbitol, Glycerin, Dehydroxanthan Gum, Lithium Magnesium Sodium Silicate, Phenoxyethanol, Parfum/Fragrance, Ethylhexylglycerin, Methylisothiazolinone, Citrus Aurantium Dulcis Oil/Orange Peel Oil

This is exhausting!!! Thank you again!

________________________________________

3B spirally "S" curls
Low porosity
Coarse
Extremely dense/thick & waist length
Hates protein, coconut oil, & aloe
Using silk pillowcases & pineappling or braiding
CG newbie (since 3/1/13)
Co wash & RO: Suave Naturals Sunshine
Purchased but haven't yet tried: Suave Waterfall Mist, Suave Wild Cherry, b.a.s.k. Java Bean and Honey Hair Balm, Now Veg Glycerin

Pics - I'm posting one in a pony and one in a braid to show the density. It doesn't look terrible but I've lost the definition from cones and haven't gotten to that definition stage of CG yet:
Attached Thumbnails
Tangled mess!  Please help!-before-cg-002.jpg   Tangled mess!  Please help!-before-cg-006.jpg   Tangled mess!  Please help!-before-cg-001-2-.jpg  
CG since 3/1/13
3B; Low porosity, Coarse, & Extremely Protein Sensitive
Very high density, waist length

Co wash: Suave Clarifying or Sun Ripened Strawberry
RO: Sun Ripened Strawberry, TN, or TN w/ veg glycerin
Sealer: apricot oil
Styler: 4 Naturals Spring Back Custard, Pantene Curl Defining Mousse, or BB "Mudd"
Using a hard water filter, microfiber towel, & silk head scarves & pillowcases

Avoiding: protein, coconut, & parabens
T
Yes To Carrots Conditioner, Pampering, for Normal to Dry Hair - I know jojoba oil has protein though
Water (Aqua), Dead Sea Water (Maris Aqua), Silt (Maris Limus), Magnesium Chloride, Chamomila Recutita (Chamomile) Extract, Simmondsia Chinensis (Jojoba) Oil, Olea Europaea (Olive) Oil, Prunus Amygdalus Dulcis (Sweet Almond) Oil, Calendula Officinalis Oil, Daucus Carota (Carrot) Seed Oil, Daucus Carota (Carrot) Juice, Cucurbita Pepo (Pumpkin) Juice, Ipomoera Batatas (Sweet Potato) Extract, Cucumis Melo (Melon) Extract, Citrus Aurantium Dulcis (Orange) Fruit Extract, Honey (Mel) Extract, Fragrance

Aubrey Organics Primrose Tangle Go Lusterizing Spray
Witch hazel (natural herbal extract), deionized water, mucopolysaccharides, organic lavender oil, lanolin, vegetable glycerin, organic evening primrose oil and panthenol (vitamin B-5).

L'Oreal Everstyle Curl Defining Gel
Aqua/Water, Sorbitol, Glycerin, Dehydroxanthan Gum, Lithium Magnesium Sodium Silicate, Phenoxyethanol, Parfum/Fragrance, Ethylhexylglycerin, Methylisothiazolinone, Citrus Aurantium Dulcis Oil/Orange Peel Oil

This is exhausting!!! Thank you again!

:
Originally Posted by misbehave
There are ingredients that you want to stay away from in those products because they are drying--the salts and the witch hazel. They might increase the tangles.

While low porosity hair can be healthy, not all healthy hair is low porosity. It's possible to have healthy hair of any porosity. I would think the stylist would comment on hair that long being healthy. When I was young, college age, I had waist length hair that was so dense, I couldn't put it in a single braid. It was just too thick (and my hair is fine.) It still didn't tangle. I've lost the density through age, thyroid and a medication I take.

You hair might not like protein because it's coarse. NC.com is the only place I've seen that low porosity hair might not like protein. Since your hair is so dry, that might contribute to the issues with protein.

You may want to consider buying bulk bases from companies like Essential Wholesale and Ingredients to Die For--you'll have to read the ingredients carefully because they do contain the proteins. The quality is significantly better then you'll find with drugstore and salon products. They don't use all of the chemicals. EW does use some witch hazel, but I don't remember if it's in the hair and/or skin products. I won't use it on either.
3a (Corkicelli), highlighted, fine, low porosity
modified CG, since April '07
CG since 3/11/08

SE PA

HGs: Anything Sevi; Curly Kinks Satin Roots, Curlycue ReNew and Coil Jam; homemade FSG and okra gel; soap bars; UFD Curly Magic; Botanical Spirits Jellies, CJ Repair Me, Marie Dean Leave Ins and Curl Creams
T
Yes To Carrots Conditioner, Pampering, for Normal to Dry Hair - I know jojoba oil has protein though
Water (Aqua), Dead Sea Water (Maris Aqua), Silt (Maris Limus), Magnesium Chloride, Chamomila Recutita (Chamomile) Extract, Simmondsia Chinensis (Jojoba) Oil, Olea Europaea (Olive) Oil, Prunus Amygdalus Dulcis (Sweet Almond) Oil, Calendula Officinalis Oil, Daucus Carota (Carrot) Seed Oil, Daucus Carota (Carrot) Juice, Cucurbita Pepo (Pumpkin) Juice, Ipomoera Batatas (Sweet Potato) Extract, Cucumis Melo (Melon) Extract, Citrus Aurantium Dulcis (Orange) Fruit Extract, Honey (Mel) Extract, Fragrance

Aubrey Organics Primrose Tangle Go Lusterizing Spray
Witch hazel (natural herbal extract), deionized water, mucopolysaccharides, organic lavender oil, lanolin, vegetable glycerin, organic evening primrose oil and panthenol (vitamin B-5).

L'Oreal Everstyle Curl Defining Gel
Aqua/Water, Sorbitol, Glycerin, Dehydroxanthan Gum, Lithium Magnesium Sodium Silicate, Phenoxyethanol, Parfum/Fragrance, Ethylhexylglycerin, Methylisothiazolinone, Citrus Aurantium Dulcis Oil/Orange Peel Oil

This is exhausting!!! Thank you again!

:
Originally Posted by misbehave
There are ingredients that you want to stay away from in those products because they are drying--the salts and the witch hazel. They might increase the tangles.

While low porosity hair can be healthy, not all healthy hair is low porosity. It's possible to have healthy hair of any porosity. I would think the stylist would comment on hair that long being healthy. When I was young, college age, I had waist length hair that was so dense, I couldn't put it in a single braid. It was just too thick (and my hair is fine.) It still didn't tangle. I've lost the density through age, thyroid and a medication I take.

You hair might not like protein because it's coarse. NC.com is the only place I've seen that low porosity hair might not like protein. Since your hair is so dry, that might contribute to the issues with protein.

You may want to consider buying bulk bases from companies like Essential Wholesale and Ingredients to Die For--you'll have to read the ingredients carefully because they do contain the proteins. The quality is significantly better then you'll find with drugstore and salon products. They don't use all of the chemicals. EW does use some witch hazel, but I don't remember if it's in the hair and/or skin products. I won't use it on either.
Originally Posted by kathymack
Ugh, more ingredients to avoid?? (Pulls hair out) Lol. Thanks for informing me of that.

I am going to try to get more moisture into my hair first and hope for the best. My hair itself doesn't feel dry though so if moisturizing doesn't completely correct the problem I may do another clarifying wash in case it is a polyquat build up instead. Hope to avoid going that route though.

Fingers crossed!
CG since 3/1/13
3B; Low porosity, Coarse, & Extremely Protein Sensitive
Very high density, waist length

Co wash: Suave Clarifying or Sun Ripened Strawberry
RO: Sun Ripened Strawberry, TN, or TN w/ veg glycerin
Sealer: apricot oil
Styler: 4 Naturals Spring Back Custard, Pantene Curl Defining Mousse, or BB "Mudd"
Using a hard water filter, microfiber towel, & silk head scarves & pillowcases

Avoiding: protein, coconut, & parabens
The euterpe olaracea is from the acai berry and is an amino acid, which is a building block of protein.

The only suave naturals that has protein is the coconut one. Nothing in the one she listed is a protein.

I agree with doing more moisture. Get a really nourishing conditioner without silicones (biolage or GVP conditioning balm and curl junkie curl rehab are popular ones) and let it sit. Use a different RO after you co wash - Tresseme Naturals is common, or you could use your DT as an RO until it improves.

Agree also on the porosity thing. My hair is low-normal porosity & never tangles unless I have hard water mineral buildup or used an ingredient it doesn't like.

What makes you think yours is protein sensitive? I can't see your siggy if your properties are listed so sorry if this is a dumb question lol.
Originally Posted by lcl0706


Sent from my SPH-L710 using CurlTalk App
It's a fruit oil. And it's very low on the ingredient list. It may be a derivative from a protein like a 3rd cousin or something, but all SN conditioners except the coconut one are well known around here as protein free. Don't mean to sound snarky or anything but I just don't buy that that tiny of an amount of something that is not directly a protein would cause anyone problems. If I obsessed over ingredients to the nth degree id go insane.

It does not have anything that jumps out as a substantial amount of true protein.
fine, thin, normal/(low?) porosity. Mod-CG. Usually I can't co-wash more than 1x a week, & sometimes I have to use T-Gel in rotation due to scalp issues.

Co-wash: VO5 Volumizing
Poo: Giovanni 50:50
RO:TN, Nexxus Youth Renewal, Alba Coconut
LI: KCKT
PT: gelatin PT, ION EC
Stylers: Giovanni mousse, TIGI Curls Rock amplifier (a-cone), Curls Rock Strong Hold Mousse
Gels: SCC spray gel

There is a whole thread about that particular conditioner and most of the protein sensitive curlies have a problem with it, so that's why I pointed it out. I'm not saying that's definitely the problem, just saying that it could be a possibility since that was my experience with it. Depending on how protein sensitive she is, that could be what's causing her dryness even though it's low on the ingredient list.

Sent from my SPH-L710 using CurlTalk App
I just can't figure it out, why my hair feels so nasty or what to do next. And I'm fairly intelligent (most of the time!) I've been using the search function in the Products section but it hasn't been very helpful. Like lcl says, I am going a bit insane learning about every ingredient in all these products. You all have been very helpful in teaching me, thank you! Maybe I'm over-thinking it.

I think I will try stopping the Suave next...like Mrs Bachemin says, there are extracts/oils which have protein in all of them so maybe that is the cause. Btw, thanks for telling me about that ingredient and Sunshine thread, I did see others didn't like it as well. I just don't know how sensitive I am, or which ones specifically I'm reacting to. Should be getting a few new things I ordered in the mail tomorrow...wish me luck...
CG since 3/1/13
3B; Low porosity, Coarse, & Extremely Protein Sensitive
Very high density, waist length

Co wash: Suave Clarifying or Sun Ripened Strawberry
RO: Sun Ripened Strawberry, TN, or TN w/ veg glycerin
Sealer: apricot oil
Styler: 4 Naturals Spring Back Custard, Pantene Curl Defining Mousse, or BB "Mudd"
Using a hard water filter, microfiber towel, & silk head scarves & pillowcases

Avoiding: protein, coconut, & parabens

Yes To Carrots Conditioner, Pampering, for Normal to Dry Hair - I know jojoba oil has protein though
Water (Aqua), Dead Sea Water (Maris Aqua), Silt (Maris Limus), Magnesium Chloride, Chamomila Recutita (Chamomile) Extract, Simmondsia Chinensis (Jojoba) Oil, Olea Europaea (Olive) Oil, Prunus Amygdalus Dulcis (Sweet Almond) Oil, Calendula Officinalis Oil, Daucus Carota (Carrot) Seed Oil, Daucus Carota (Carrot) Juice, Cucurbita Pepo (Pumpkin) Juice, Ipomoera Batatas (Sweet Potato) Extract, Cucumis Melo (Melon) Extract, Citrus Aurantium Dulcis (Orange) Fruit Extract, Honey (Mel) Extract, Fragrance

:
Originally Posted by misbehave
The Yes to Carrots Pampering Conditioner I have has different ingredients listed. Some companies are known not to thoroughly list their ingredients until forced to so so. Perhaps one of these is interacting with your other products, and/or your hair doesn't like it. Here's the full list of ingredients for Yes to Carrots Pampering Conditioner:

Water (Aqua), Cetearyl Alcohol, Behenalkonium Chloride, Cetyl Esters, Daucus Carota Sativa (Carrot) Juice, Daucus Carota Sativa (Carrot) Seed Oil, Dead Sea Water (Maris Aqua), Maris Limus Silt Extract (Dead Sea Silt), Chamomilla Recutita (Matricaria) Flower Oil, Olea Europaea (Olive) Fruit Oil, Prunus Amygdalus Dulcis Oil (Sweet Almond), Calendula (Calendula Officinalis) Flower Seed Oil, Cucurbita Pepo Fruit Extract (Pumpkin), Ipomoea Batatas Extract (Sweet Potato), Cucumis Melo Fruit Extract (Melon), Simmondsia Chinensis (Jojoba) Seed Oil, Triticum Vulgare (Wheat Germ) Oil, Citrus Aurantium Dulcis (Orange) Fruit Extract, Honey Extract, Punica Granatum Extract (Pomegranate), Guar Hydroxypropyltrimonium Chloride, Fragrance (Parfum), Sodium Hydroxide, Sodium Benzoate, Potassium Sorbate
Medium/coarse, low porosity, dense, mix of 3s
CG (again) since Nov. 2012

Cleanse: SM Moisture Retention, Elucence MBC, KC Come Clean
Condish: Giovanni DL, Cure Care, Ion Treatment, GVP Balm, AOHR
Protein: AOGPB, CNPF, SSRPT
Stylers: KCCC, SM Souffle, AOMM, SS CEJ, JCRR, JCCC


Trying out steaming!
I do wish you luck, I totally know what it feels like to wonder whats going wrong, get paranoid about every ingredient, and hope that the next thing that comes in the mail might somehow be the solution! You probably are in more need of advice from people who actually have it sorted! But, I do understand. I have completely different properties so I don't want to advise the wrong thing.

I am just wondering though, if you've only been CG for a short time then your problems, especially at the beginning, are not so likely to be build up. Often a product that causes build up will work well first and even second time. I wonder if your hair always had this capacity to tangle, just because of the length and density, and it was cones that were giving you enough slip to detangle it. I agree that lots and lots of moisture is the best thing, you might have lost the slip from the cones but not yet re moisturised enough to compensate. I still think all the advice about products/ingredients is worth doing though.

What was your hair like before (to detangle I mean) in between shampoo and conditioner? Did it tangle as much after shampoo, but your conditioners with cones made detangling quicker?

I would try to find a co wash that has a bit of slip, and also to get your hair as detangled as possible before starting (at least you can sit down for that!) maybe with some product, and wash it in sections if possible. Slide your fingers in along the scalp, disturbing the lengths as little as possible, and just let them be cleansed as the product rinses out. Sorry if that is stating the obvious, you've probably picked up skills in handling thick hair already!
UK based wavy

Mostly waves, but curls and straight bits too!
Fine to medium, high porosity, medium density, very low elasticity
Highlights damage (growing it out), seems to like protein and need lots of moisture.

Cleanse - CJDF, trying out low poos ; Co wash- Uk chemist brands, Urtekram Rose or Aloe, Hairveda Amala Cream Rinse; RO - varies, Tigi Moisture Maniac, Desert Essence Coconut ; Leave in - Keracare natural textures; Sealant - argan oil
Trying out new things, still looking.
I totally remember being where you are right now. It sucks!

Coarse, low porosity hair is a pain in the butt. There aren't a lot of curly girls with that texture. Most girls have fine hair and are able to use products that coarse heads can't. Look out for that when you read people's regimen.

Moving on...

My absolute favorite cowash at the moment is the Tresemme Naturals Moisture conditioner. Suave provides no slip or moisture (for me). Never tried VO5 as an adult. I have terrible childhood memories of my mom using that conditioner on my hair as a child. Lol. I hate it and refuse to use it.

Another new fav is the As I Am Coconut CoWash.

I know it seems overwhelming, but with time and patience you'll figure out what works for YOUR hair.

You mentioned in a couple posts that you're avoiding products that contain coconut oil and aloe. Have the products you've tried contained those ingredients, as well as some type of actual protein (such as wheat protein, etc.)? I ask because I thought the same thing, but my hair can tolerate coconut oil if it's in a protein-free product. Same goes for aloe. An example of this would be the Desert Essence Coconut conditioner (contains coconut oil AND aloe vera juice). I swore my hair would hate it, but decided to finally give it a try. Lo and behold my hair completely rejoiced and it's now one of my HG conditioners.

Once again, I've rambled, but I want to share what I've learned because I understand how hard this process is.

Good luck!
I also found the DE coconut quite moisturising/quite good slip. I'm not so protein sensitive but since the product is protein free it will be interesting to see if you liked it.

For co wash with slip I don't think the ones I use are available except in Uk (except maybe the Hairveda amala cream rinse) , but believe I read on here that Giovanni tea tree triple (or something like that)conditioner has slip.
UK based wavy

Mostly waves, but curls and straight bits too!
Fine to medium, high porosity, medium density, very low elasticity
Highlights damage (growing it out), seems to like protein and need lots of moisture.

Cleanse - CJDF, trying out low poos ; Co wash- Uk chemist brands, Urtekram Rose or Aloe, Hairveda Amala Cream Rinse; RO - varies, Tigi Moisture Maniac, Desert Essence Coconut ; Leave in - Keracare natural textures; Sealant - argan oil
Trying out new things, still looking.
Hootenanny - I haven't tried the Yes to Carrots yet, I was just wondering if I should try it...and it's looking like no, I shouldn't. However, I can't believe companies don't necessarily disclose all of their ingredients. That is so dishonest! Glad I'm learning that listed ingredients can vary so much. Thanks for letting me know about that!

Lucy - my hair always has been likely to tangle but it's a more matted feeling now. Not lots of separate tangles, but all one big clump that felt like a Brillo pad! I think you are definitely on to something as far as the density and length playing a part. And the coarse texture of my hair is also probably involved in this hair crime. I have a filtered shower head on my list too, just in case it's my water. I'm gonna need to win the lottery soon ova' here! But I'm gonna simmer down and try switching products first and getting more moisture in like everybody recommends. I just got a "shipment" of stuff that came in today and I've never been more excited to shower!

Trust me, NOTHING is obvious to me right now! I've never tried washing in sections. I have SO much hair though, that is probably not a bad idea, even though it might take forever. It's very hard to get cleansing/conditioning products "through" my hair to actually reach my scalp. I've been putting a handful of co wash at the crown of my head, another at the nape and sides, and then parting my hair like curtains and putting another handful at the back/middle. Ugg.

Thank you for taking so much time to help me!! I am loving the support of this forum and the nice people like you! I am putting the DE coconut on my list, for sure.

Redbre - your post nearly has me in tears of gratitude! I remember when I was just lurking around and would come across these dramatic posts. I'd think, 'jeez, get a grip and stop being so dramatic!' Lol. But it is that frustrating! It's so nice to be understood and get validation from another low porosity coarse curly. I actually kept being accused of getting my hair properties wrong and that had me second guessing myself for a minute.

Most girls have fine hair and are able to use products that coarse heads can't.
...Oh. Em. Gee! This is a total 'a-ha!' moment for me. I already knew no one I know irl has hair like this but I didn't think that our type would still be so uncommon here. I've been bopping around not finding many who seemed to have this hard of a time and have been getting lots of advice from fine haired girls and/or those with less density (which I still totally appreciate!) but I just keep getting lots of conflicting info. Mainly when it comes to product recs. I get that what works for one doesn't necessarily work for another but narrowing it down surely has to help. I've literally tried about a dozen things so far already, and have purchased about a dozen more that I haven't yet tried. It's nuts. I'm nuts! But I am also very determined to give this CG thing an honest go. I have been trying to read sigs but a lot of folks don't have their properties added in. Others do but are not a match. I am working on the patience bit of it but it ain't easy.

You're cracking me up about terrible memories of your mom using Suave & Vo5. I JUST got Tresemme Naturals and As I Am in the mail today! Were you the one who told me about them before? Everything is one big blur. Anyway, I feel completely reassured in my purchase, so thank you. I should be co washing my hair RIGHT NOW instead of being online!

Coconut oil & aloe - I've tried a straight coconut oil pre-wash treatment. But that was before CG. I don't know if that matters. I don't think most of the products I've been trying since has had it in them (except for the Suave Coconut but that has protein too I think). I don't know anything anymore, I'm seeing stars and not the good kind.

It would be really nice if I found I could use aloe...it's in everything, especially the more natural products which I'd prefer to use. Thanks for telling me you can. I had tried a natural hair care sample pack from Healing-scents... and my hair said, "wth!!" But that was also while using the Vo5 then Suave and it had a mix of stuff in it so it could've been another ingredient...sigh. I just assumed it was the aloe because of the protein factor. So complicated. That's why I just cut out EVERYTHING. I have no leave-in or styling products in at the moment and I will use the same RO as co wash in the shower next time and forego product (for the time being) just so I know for sure how each product is working. Maybe this is a bad plan, and I should drown it with stuff though, I don't know. I put Desert Essence Coconut conditioner on my list to try!!

Thanks so much for the empathy and nice message and calming me down a little. Sorry for getting so long winded. Gonna go co wash my hair now!

Sorry for that little melt down everybody! It helps to think "out loud" and you've all been so wonderful to me. Thank you!!
CG since 3/1/13
3B; Low porosity, Coarse, & Extremely Protein Sensitive
Very high density, waist length

Co wash: Suave Clarifying or Sun Ripened Strawberry
RO: Sun Ripened Strawberry, TN, or TN w/ veg glycerin
Sealer: apricot oil
Styler: 4 Naturals Spring Back Custard, Pantene Curl Defining Mousse, or BB "Mudd"
Using a hard water filter, microfiber towel, & silk head scarves & pillowcases

Avoiding: protein, coconut, & parabens
Just be careful with the coconut oil containing products.....

Sent from my SPH-L710 using CurlTalk App

Last edited by MrsBachemin; 03-15-2013 at 01:39 PM.
Glad I could be of some help, misbehave.

The curly hair journey requires a lot of experimentation. Haha.

Hope your cowash went well!
Co wash: As I Am Coconut co wash - horrible! Got the matting with this too. It's official - coconuts are for pina coladas, not my hair.

RO: TRESemme Naturals Nourishing Moisture Conditioner - great!!! Well, sorta. I finally got rid of that matted feeling and was able to comb through the "mess". The only problem is now my hair is totally limp/straight/too soft. Advice? Have I over moisturized now?
CG since 3/1/13
3B; Low porosity, Coarse, & Extremely Protein Sensitive
Very high density, waist length

Co wash: Suave Clarifying or Sun Ripened Strawberry
RO: Sun Ripened Strawberry, TN, or TN w/ veg glycerin
Sealer: apricot oil
Styler: 4 Naturals Spring Back Custard, Pantene Curl Defining Mousse, or BB "Mudd"
Using a hard water filter, microfiber towel, & silk head scarves & pillowcases

Avoiding: protein, coconut, & parabens
Hi misbehave! I just wanted to add that I wasn't telling you NOT to try Yes to Carrots. I really like it actually! I was just surprised that the ingredient list you had was missing so many of the more "chemical" ingredients. Those are the things that one really has to be careful about when picking a product, and as you said, it is definitely wrong for a company not to be honest about them!

Having said this, I'm medium/coarse, low porosity, dense, and (mostly) 3b, so we might be hair twins (except for length: you are my DREAM twin on that one )! And my hair really likes Yes to Carrots. If the FULL list of ingredients looks okay to you, then I'd say give it a shot. One more possibly hair-twinish thing: Tresemme Naturals Aloe-Avocado makes my hair straighter as well! It's great when I want a looser, wavy look, but otherwise I prefer Aubrey HR, Suave Coconut, VO5 Shea, Shea Moisture, or the Yes To (carrots, cukes, or tomatoes) Line for a conditioner.

Hope this is helpful!
Medium/coarse, low porosity, dense, mix of 3s
CG (again) since Nov. 2012

Cleanse: SM Moisture Retention, Elucence MBC, KC Come Clean
Condish: Giovanni DL, Cure Care, Ion Treatment, GVP Balm, AOHR
Protein: AOGPB, CNPF, SSRPT
Stylers: KCCC, SM Souffle, AOMM, SS CEJ, JCRR, JCCC


Trying out steaming!

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