Again I'm NOT saying to not help them. I'm saying what we are doing now isn't helping. Do you think that it's helping them not be poor anymore?

And you keep talking about lazy rich people... I don't really understand what that has to do with helping the poor. How is making an excuse for lazy behavior helping them?

I'd also like to know if someone has a cell phone (and not the cheap pay as you go ones), $100 shoes or nice new car, etc why should they be on welfare?

I'm saying what we are doing now do not work and it needs to change.

And look I've lived on Min. wage... it IS possible. I've lived BELOW poverty level, more than $1,000 below... it wasn't easy.

And you also said
Being poor doesn't make you virtous and they are scum at every income level. But you don't toss everything out because of it.
I never said that, I never even implied that. I have said it over and over, please read what I am saying here. Welfare is NOT helping them not be poor anymore. I want to help them not be poor. I know that we can NEVER eliminate poverty. It happens mostly because of choices we make. My husband and I were because we didn't work as hard as we could have in HS and couldn't go to college. Sometimes it's a situation that you don't bring on yourself, but that's much more rare. BUT I still want to help those that make poor decisions, but what we have not isn't doing that.

Do you know when we in this country had the biggest growth in the middle class? After WWII because of the GI Bill. So the guys coming back we able to work at bettering themselves. And it wasn't just college, the GI bill did then and still will pay you if you are in an approve apprenticeship. But they had to work for it. First they served this country, then they had to work at their education. The GI Bill will now help pay for certifications. That's just one way they can help themselves get out of poverty.

And you had that many applicants because of the economy. Now when the economy is bad is the best time to go to school, to get some sort of education. To better yourself. That's what I want them to do, to do something to not be poor anymore. I want them to get help doing that. How is welfare doing that?

Also you said
I wasn't talking to you directly (which is why I didn't quote you)
But you were talking about what I had just said... you don't have to quote me to be talking about my comments.