This is what NC says on type 4 hair -
Type 4 is kinky, or very tightly curled, with a clearly visible curl pattern

Circumference: Crochet needle or even smaller

I always thought that coffee stirrer or pen spring size was 4a, I believe that is the original definition.

I agree with Nappy*Me and the others who say there is no such thing as 4c hair. The picture of her hair is exactly what I think of when I think of 4b hair.

BUT - I think this thread once again proves why the hair typing system is erroneous, because there are always going to be outliers, and if it's a "true" system, people can't just make up additional hair types because they don't feel as if they belong in any of the categories. Also, since hair typing doesn't take texture into consideration, a lot of people don't realize that your hair can look VERY different due to texture, but you will still fall into the same category as someone else.
Originally Posted by ellepixie

That circumference description is so misleading. I crochet, and they are crochet hooks, for one. Second, and more important, I have hooks that vary in size from 3mm to 16mm... That's a very large difference! So, which size hook are they talking about?

And, what is this Z pattern coil they keep referring to? My hair has a round coil pattern, no sharp angles. Yet has no definition. So, I'm not 4A, because I have no definition, and I'm not 4B, because I have no Z pattern. So, where does that leave me?
Originally Posted by CocoaCoily
LOL...to be totally honest, I think you're thinking about this way too much. And a hook is a kind of needle - I crochet too, they weren't wrong in calling it a needle. I also think they were referring to the length of the needle and not the hook on the end - I can picture it in my head but I don't think I can describe it well. 4a hair also does not have to be clearly defined - if you have a round coil pattern, you have a curl pattern. I haven't seen your hair but by your description I would call you 4a. Whether your hair looks defined and clumps together depends on texture/density.[/quote]

The bolded part of what you typed doesn't make alot of sense and it's contrary to the description from NC that you posted. Clumping and having defined curls is the only way one would know the size of their curls thus what hair type group they belong to. If there is no clumping and no definition that would be 4b. I have not seen any type 3's that didn't have a clearly visible curl pattern. Type 4a tend to know they are 4a due to a clearly visible curl pattern which would mean clumping is involved. Type 4b does not clump and has no clearly visible curl pattern it is a fluffy cloud.

The poster you quoted made some good points and the fact this debate is ongoing is the reason why hair typing should be thrown out the window.