My waves just can't make it

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  • 1 Post By rymorg2
  • 1 Post By Savagegirl

Hi wavies! I have been CG for about 6 weeks now and I am consistently running in to an issue. After a few hours my waves completely fade out and I am left with a floofy stringy mess. And second day hair? Forget about it! That mess is up in a bun. I have tried gel (sometimes looks good, sometimes doesn't) and mousse (same results). I tried using both together (that was a gunky disaster). What products should I look towards next for better hold/longevity? I went from using no styling products whatsoever to CG, so I am still getting used to the feel of product in my hair... necessary evil I guess. I would prefer to keep products to a minimum.

My signature has my current products. My hair likes to form thin waves instead of thick ones (shower/plopping clumps don't last, they always separate). I would love unicorn hair (shiny bouncy soft voluminous waves) but my hair leans towards beachy hippie.
Curly Girl Newbie - started 9/7/2016
2a/2b, fine texture, medium density

[U]Current Routine
Low Poo: Giovanni 50/50 Shampoo
Conditioner: Giovanni 50/50 Conditioner
Stylers: Curly Hair Solutions Curl Keeper/KY Lube, ISO BOuncy Curls, Miss Jessie's Jelly Soft Curls, Herbal Essence Body Envy Mousse, LA Looks gel (working out the right combo)
A few things...you may need to clarify. Plenty of us still need to clarify occasionally, myself included. Also have you tried a pt or dt?

Lastly I looked up the stylers ingredients, while they are cg some ingredients like polyquats can build up and relax curl and wave. Also while technically water soluable, some people still can't use even peg modified silicones.
naturecat likes this.
Cosmetology Educator with sensitivities, eczema and Seborrheic Dermatitis.
Low poo: looking
COWash: Eden, cheapo condish, CJDF
RO: varies
Protein: CJCF or CJRM
DT: CJHBDF, CJCR, DBPC
LI: varies, usually KCKT
Stylers: KCCC, CRNCM, UFDCM, Curls gel, ecostyler

Lady Karaan, High Priestess of Hayr Tretements in the Order of Curly Crusaders
Fotki updated 10/12/10 Password: wavy
In addition to clarifying/chelating.... you may want to try squish to condish:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oDi0OvYSgSA
Squish to Condish - There once was a curl - by Melissa Stites
This gives nice thick chunky waves/curls.
You can also try the ice queen method for bigger clumps (or some of the other methods listed there that mention clumping):
http://www.naturallycurly.com/curlta...queen-etc.html

2C/3A/f/i
Super baby fine hair, low porosity
Shampoos: SM Fruit Fusion (mostly), KCCC, Avalon lemon (to clarify). Occasional aloe vera and glycerin to wash.
Stylers: Intelligent Nutrients Perfect Hold Hairspray
Treatments: Catnip tea, IA girl's PT, Fermented Rice Water, Catnip Tea, Amla tea, Irish Moss, SS PT
If you are fine haired, then co-washing might not be the best for you. Often, if you have fine hair, the occasional shampoo is helpful. Have you considered adding a gentle, sulfate-free shampoo to your routine?
Low poo: Intelligent Nutrients (IN) Harmonizing; Oribe Cleansing Creme
RO: IN Harmonizing
LI: As I Am; CJ Beauticurls
Stylers: IN Straight Hair Serum; IN Volumizing Foam; IN Volumizing Spray; IN Styling Gel; IN Perfect Hold Hairspray

Normal- to low-porosity 2a/b baby-fine hair with a coarse section at back of head
Hi, I have fine hair, and even though I have 3a to 3b curls, if I strictly cowash, it'll weigh down my hair. I can't even do it, even though it looks good for a while, but it gets straight on top and over the weeks it'll get more and more straight. I've been lo-pooing for the past 2 years and it's going a lot better.

Sent from my XT1254 using CurlTalk App
I agree with all the suggestions above (clarifying, low-poo, no silicones). I also just wanted to add that the best hold I've gotten by far is when using UFDCM as my first layer with BRHG on top. Even though I have medium to coarse hair, leave-ins seem to weigh me down so I generally don't use them. Because you're fine, the BRHG might be too heavy for you, but perhaps something like the UFDCM alone would work for you. I've tried it alone myself, or over CJ CCCCL, and had good results. I just needed the extra hold of BRHG if I wanted it to last a few days though.
2c/3a
Porosity: low at roots; normal mid-shaft; high at ends
Texture: mix of medium & coarse
Density: medium


Low-Poo: SM Fruit Fusion, but looking for something new
RO: GVP Conditioning Balm
Stylers: MT Curly Custard; CHS Curl Keeper; UFD Curly Magic; Innersense I Create Volume

Occasional use: CJ Repair Me; Jason Dandruff Relief Shampoo 2:1; Elucence Volume Clarifying Shampoo


CG (or mod CG since I low-poo?) since June 2015
A few things...you may need to clarify. Plenty of us still need to clarify occasionally, myself included. Also have you tried a pt or dt?

Lastly I looked up the stylers ingredients, while they are cg some ingredients like polyquats can build up and relax curl and wave. Also while technically water soluable, some people still can't use even peg modified silicones.
Originally Posted by rymorg2
This explains why my hair hated Garnier Fructis and Organix products. I looked up the ingredients from the Garnier and Organix products I had used, and they all had the polyquats. Everytime I used their products, it made my hair dry, dull, tangly, limp and pulled my waves down. Now I know to watch out for polyquats. :-)

That being said, I would recommend trying some different products without the polyquats and see if that helps. Oh and I just found this out, but if you buy hair products from Wal-Greens and CVS, if you don't like it, you can take it back. This would have saved me tons of money a long time ago. There may be others who offer the same kind of return policy.
Curl Pattern: 2B/2C ( I think), LP, high density, coarse
I'm experimenting with the following....
Shampoo: Mop Top gentle shampoo, Mop Top clarifying rescue treatment
Conditioner: Mop Top Daily Conditioner
Leave in: As I am, KKKT
Gel: Kinky Curly Custard, Cantu define and shine custard
Refresher: Geranium Refresher Spray (2c distilled water+5 drops of geranium essential oil), DIY spray gel (1 T Mop Top custard + 1 oz distilled water)
Thanks for the responses! I currently clarify about every 4-5 washes (so 10-14 days), I am being naughty and using the Suave clarifying shampoo because that is what I got when I did the big cleanse and started CG (my shampoo had silicones in it). When I do clarify I do it after a coconut oil treatment. I just ordered the Curly Hair Solutions Curl Keeper and am going to add that to my routine. We will see if it helps the gel out. Also, what are some ideas for a protein treatment that would be ok for fine hair? It is virgin hair (not color treated or permed/straightened) and I rarely heat style or blow dry. So it's not terribly damaged. I do feel like I am losing a lot of hair in the shower though, but that could be the hormones still working themselves out, I had a baby a year ago. Oh and Lordy the baby hairs I have now!
Curly Girl Newbie - started 9/7/2016
2a/2b, fine texture, medium density

[U]Current Routine
Low Poo: Giovanni 50/50 Shampoo
Conditioner: Giovanni 50/50 Conditioner
Stylers: Curly Hair Solutions Curl Keeper/KY Lube, ISO BOuncy Curls, Miss Jessie's Jelly Soft Curls, Herbal Essence Body Envy Mousse, LA Looks gel (working out the right combo)
Ooooh and my hair has always hated Garnie Fructis shampoo and conditioner too! Like two washes in and I am tossing the bottle! So what are polyquats and is it hard to find products without them?
Curly Girl Newbie - started 9/7/2016
2a/2b, fine texture, medium density

[U]Current Routine
Low Poo: Giovanni 50/50 Shampoo
Conditioner: Giovanni 50/50 Conditioner
Stylers: Curly Hair Solutions Curl Keeper/KY Lube, ISO BOuncy Curls, Miss Jessie's Jelly Soft Curls, Herbal Essence Body Envy Mousse, LA Looks gel (working out the right combo)
Here are a couple of articles on polyquats:
Science-y Hair Blog: Polyquat or Not?
Science-y Hair Blog: Polyquat build-up

Yes, in my experience, it is very difficult to find products without polyquats. I think you would have to look for a product that called itself "all natural" to avoid polyquats.

If you have virgin hair, I would be really careful with protein treatments. I would start just with a protein-rich conditioner, one that has protein as one of the first several ingredients. Also be aware that some people's hair reacts differently to different proteins. Your hair might like oat protein but not soy, for example.
Low poo: Intelligent Nutrients (IN) Harmonizing; Oribe Cleansing Creme
RO: IN Harmonizing
LI: As I Am; CJ Beauticurls
Stylers: IN Straight Hair Serum; IN Volumizing Foam; IN Volumizing Spray; IN Styling Gel; IN Perfect Hold Hairspray

Normal- to low-porosity 2a/b baby-fine hair with a coarse section at back of head
Here are a couple of articles on polyquats:
Science-y Hair Blog: Polyquat or Not?
Science-y Hair Blog: Polyquat build-up

Yes, in my experience, it is very difficult to find products without polyquats. I think you would have to look for a product that called itself "all natural" to avoid polyquats.

If you have virgin hair, I would be really careful with protein treatments. I would start just with a protein-rich conditioner, one that has protein as one of the first several ingredients. Also be aware that some people's hair reacts differently to different proteins. Your hair might like oat protein but not soy, for example.
Low poo: Intelligent Nutrients (IN) Harmonizing; Oribe Cleansing Creme
RO: IN Harmonizing
LI: As I Am; CJ Beauticurls
Stylers: IN Straight Hair Serum; IN Volumizing Foam; IN Volumizing Spray; IN Styling Gel; IN Perfect Hold Hairspray

Normal- to low-porosity 2a/b baby-fine hair with a coarse section at back of head
Savagegirl's Avatar
Join Date: Jun 2016
Posts: 135
Aside from the products, how do you DRY your hair??

Have you tried minimal product but diffusing? I find this adds quite nicely to curl/wave formation.
naturecat likes this.
__
2B-3A Fine medium density
Modified CG Method / Natural Only

Innsersense Organic
Shea Moisture
I like IAgirl's Protein Treatment:
Science-y Hair Blog: Recipes and Projects
You only need gelatin and water. As you experiment you can dilute it to your liking, and if the protein is too strong you can deep condition afterwards. Fine hair in general loves protein. If you're new to CG chances are you need both protein and moisture.

2C/3A/f/i
Super baby fine hair, low porosity
Shampoos: SM Fruit Fusion (mostly), KCCC, Avalon lemon (to clarify). Occasional aloe vera and glycerin to wash.
Stylers: Intelligent Nutrients Perfect Hold Hairspray
Treatments: Catnip tea, IA girl's PT, Fermented Rice Water, Catnip Tea, Amla tea, Irish Moss, SS PT
I like IAgirl's Protein Treatment:
Science-y Hair Blog: Recipes and Projects
You only need gelatin and water. As you experiment you can dilute it to your liking, and if the protein is too strong you can deep condition afterwards. Fine hair in general loves protein. If you're new to CG chances are you need both protein and moisture.

2C/3A/f/i
Super baby fine hair, low porosity
Shampoos: SM Fruit Fusion (mostly), KCCC, Avalon lemon (to clarify). Occasional aloe vera and glycerin to wash.
Stylers: Intelligent Nutrients Perfect Hold Hairspray
Treatments: Catnip tea, IA girl's PT, Fermented Rice Water, Catnip Tea, Amla tea, Irish Moss, SS PT
I have been lurking these boards for months. For me some days have been better than others. Before CG, I never used styling product, I would just throw some oil on my ends and pin curl. Never used a blow dryer before as the result left me looking like a pissed off lion wandering the desert sands. Had to buy a blow dryer and diffuser, they really help me look extra curly, recently purchased a standing bonnet dryer from Cosmoprof, but Sally's sells them too. I use all CG friendly styling products and a lot of them. Just discovered that a final cold water rinse really helps my waves look curly. Clarifying is a must for me, my stylist introduced me to Malibu C Un-Do-Goo. This stuff is gentle but amazing. Finally, just try not to use products that will weight down your hair. Silicone and Polyquat will surely do this, and block moisture from going in to your hair shaft. Try to avoid. Hope this helps.
Modified CG 7/29/2016
LoPoo - SM FF, Jessicurl Gentle Lather,KCCC, Malibu C UnDoGoo
Co-wash - Camille Rose Caramel Co Wash
RO - DC Decadence, Jessicurl Too Shea! CJ Curl Rehab. LI - As I Am, Camille Rose Moisture Milk
Styler - DC Ultra Defining Gel, KCCC, AG Re-coil Camille Rose Curl Maker
DT - CJ Rehab & Repair Mielle Organics Babassu
Olaplex 1 & 2 monthly, Deva Towel, 2 prong hair clips, satin sleep bonnet. Clarify with sulfate shampoo monthly, no cones.
Thanks for the responses! I air dry my hair. I have a diffuser and used it once. It was awful! Also with my fine hair heat styling really dries it out and causes breakage so I save it for special occasions. I have two young kids (4 and 1), It is not feasible to spend and hour on styling, so wash and go is a must for me. I did a DIY gelatin treatment tonight, so we will see if that helps. Also the next time I go to the store I will look for some CG friendly gel and mousse without polyquats. Regardless of the wave output, my naked hair is looking much better so I am happy with where it going. I am just styling challenged!
Curly Girl Newbie - started 9/7/2016
2a/2b, fine texture, medium density

[U]Current Routine
Low Poo: Giovanni 50/50 Shampoo
Conditioner: Giovanni 50/50 Conditioner
Stylers: Curly Hair Solutions Curl Keeper/KY Lube, ISO BOuncy Curls, Miss Jessie's Jelly Soft Curls, Herbal Essence Body Envy Mousse, LA Looks gel (working out the right combo)
Savagegirl's Avatar
Join Date: Jun 2016
Posts: 135
How about plopping with a mesh hairnet? No heat
__
2B-3A Fine medium density
Modified CG Method / Natural Only

Innsersense Organic
Shea Moisture
Ok, here I am post gelatin treatment. I cowashed and squish to condish with my normal products. No leave in. Scrunched with LA Looks Sport Extreme gel (its blue), plopped, then air dried until about 80% dry. Then diffused and scrunched out the crunch. Looks nice, we will see how it holds up.
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My waves just can't make it-img_1432.jpg  
Curly Girl Newbie - started 9/7/2016
2a/2b, fine texture, medium density

[U]Current Routine
Low Poo: Giovanni 50/50 Shampoo
Conditioner: Giovanni 50/50 Conditioner
Stylers: Curly Hair Solutions Curl Keeper/KY Lube, ISO BOuncy Curls, Miss Jessie's Jelly Soft Curls, Herbal Essence Body Envy Mousse, LA Looks gel (working out the right combo)
Ok, here I am post gelatin treatment. I cowashed and squish to condish with my normal products. No leave in. Scrunched with LA Looks Sport Extreme gel (its blue), plopped, then air dried until about 80% dry. Then diffused and scrunched out the crunch. Looks nice, we will see how it holds up.
Curly Girl Newbie - started 9/7/2016
2a/2b, fine texture, medium density

[U]Current Routine
Low Poo: Giovanni 50/50 Shampoo
Conditioner: Giovanni 50/50 Conditioner
Stylers: Curly Hair Solutions Curl Keeper/KY Lube, ISO BOuncy Curls, Miss Jessie's Jelly Soft Curls, Herbal Essence Body Envy Mousse, LA Looks gel (working out the right combo)

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