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Mirabella 01-02-2012 10:39 PM

What have I done..?
(I apologize in advance for the longish post)

I am desperately seeking advice on what could be causing this issue I am having with my hair.

I have used conditioner only on my hair for a few years but only recently started following the CG methods about a month and half ago when I was tired of my limp curls and seemingly dry hair. I had always used Garnier triple nutrition, but have found it really doesn't do much for my hair. So I tried a few different products. I tried burts bees volumizing conditoner, loved this but my hair was a bit on the frizzy (in a good way) side. I tried Naturelle's Hemp conditioner but did not get any kind of result from this good or bad. I also tried Cantu shea butter leave-in conditioner in my search for a leave in but aside from the wonderful smell had mediocre results from this too (although it did work good as a deep conditioner).

I decided I would try to cut out proteins to see how my hair would react so I tried a few protein free products. I had OK success with sauve and decent results with aussie moist. I was using the garnier as a leave in successfully but could also use the Aussie. I also made and used flax seed gel (no additives) and loved it under my regular gel (Garnier curl defining spray gel with the sprayer removed and applied manually). My hair was happy and I was happy with the results mostly and had great curl definition with less tangles and shedding. Here is a pic:

Then I decided to henna my hair and I was super happy with these results also. My hair felt stronger, like it was freshly cut and healthy, simply amazing. I had good curl using minimal product and did not need a lot of conditioner either. A picture:

Then I tried a new gel and things have gone down hill since then. I tried the garnier pure clean gel as I had ran out of the gel I normally used (garnier's curl defining spray gel). This gel left my hair feeling dry when wet, instantly tangled and just sticky and yucky so much that I immediately rinsed it out. Ever since using this gel my hair has gotten progressively worse.

My hair feels wet when I first wet it in the shower, but after few moments it feels sorta dry,matted and tangled. Any conditioner I apply feels like it is instantly absorbed and I get absolutely no slip or detangling from any conditioner. I am finding it more and more impossible to detangle my hair in the shower, to the point where it is taking my 45minutes or more just to comb thru my hair with conditioner applied to it. Any products (gel or leave-in) leave my hair feeling like it did with the Garnier pure clean gel, even flax seed gel (although I did add honey to my mix this time so that might be why?)

At first I thought maybe after henna'ing my hair did not like the conditioners I was using, so I tried Tresseme's natural silicone free (after reading good reviews from that also) and it was ok but not as good as my hair had been.

I even tried using a product with silicone, which I regret as this left my hair feeling plasticy and like barbie doll hair, heavy and limp with no curl definition at all.

I tried clarifying using V05's clarifying shampoo and garnier's triple nutrition shampoo. Since then I have only had ONE moderately successful hair day. I shampoo'd with the garnier triple nutrition shampoo and then used the sauve conditioner. My hair felt great, it detangled easily, felt sleek and smooth, not matted and tangled but I just repeated that tonite with no success at all.

I do not know what else to do. I do not want to continue to strip my hair by clarifying it further unless its absolutely necessary. I had my hair trimmed (1/2 an inch) today with my last trim about 3 months ago (I hate cutting my hair). I have not tried a protein treatment yet only because I had been focusing on giving my hair moisture and more moisture. Have I over done it on the moisture? Should I do a protein treatment or is there another cause behind my increasingly unmanagable hair?

My curl does form, but the strands seem to seperate resulting in super frizzy hair. This happens even when my hair is wet. One side of my head (the right side) seems to be tougher to detangle than the other (which seems weird to me).

I believe my hair is both normal porousity and overly porous, but I'm not entirely sure on this as I seem to find all types within my hair and I have both fine, medium and coarse hairs. And finally a pic of my hair

I figured a closer up pic would show better the lack of clumping and definition. I apologize again for the very long post, but after searching the forums (and google) trying different things, I do not know what else to do.

curlisue1 01-04-2012 07:30 PM

Not really sure how to answer your post. Sounds like a lot going on.

Could it be related to the weather? I know that winter has set in where I am and now I have to change up my routine to keep my hair from drying out. One really good conditioner that works for me is suave almond and Shea butter. Not sure if it is CG though.

Sorry I can't be more help. Maybe someone else will chime in with some suggestions.

DEL2C 01-04-2012 07:51 PM

So sorry, it is frustrating when we don't know what our hair wants. From what I've read henna seems to make hair less porous? Try searching past henna threads, you might benefit from a PT followed by a DT both with heat to make sure it's all penetrated.

Mirabella 01-04-2012 11:48 PM

CurlieSue - It could be weather related, it had been pretty mild and rainy and then it got super cold and we did get some snow. I've also had super dry skin so my hair could be suffering as well. I'll look into the conditioner as I've some luck with sauve products as long as they do not have cones.

DEL2C - I am going to try a protein treatment, but I am wondering if a homemade treatment would be enough before I try a store bought one. I'd like to try something that will be gentle on my hair just in case it is NOT what I need.

Thank you both for your advice, I really really appreciate it :)

DEL2C 01-05-2012 08:11 AM

Try this protein pack Live Curly Live Free - Home Remedies or IAgirls gelatin PT you can find her recipe over in the 2's forum.

Good Luck hope something works for you, let us know how it goes. Do follow up your PT with a DT since your hair sounds like it's rather temperamental, I wouldn't skip that step.

Mirabella 01-06-2012 06:21 PM

So I went ahead and did the protein treatment, the first link with egg and mayo, I doubled the recipe for my length of hair as I tried the recipe amounts and I didnt feel my hair was covered enough and it felt gunky and sticky. Left that on for an hour (about 10mins over an hour as I had to put my son down for his nap and he was quite insistent that he was not tired through yawns). Rinsing it out my hair felt a bit stiff and dry like I had just washed with a sulfate shampoo. Is this normal?

I am sitting with a deep conditioning treatment on now. I had hoped to leave it on over night but DH just informed me that he wants to go out to eat, so I told him he had to wait til 9 cause I wanted to leave this on for longer than an hour.

If it still feels rough, do you think it would benefit my hair to do another PT with something store bought? I bought some V05 moisturizing hot oil treatment these are its ingredients:

Water (Aqua); Cocotrimonium Chloride; Acetamide MEA; Aloe Barbadensis Leaf Juice; Hydroxyethylcellulose; PEI-1750; Oleth-20; Propylene Glycol; Methylparaben; Disodium EDTA; Polyquaternium-10; Hydrolyzed Wheat Protein; Hydrolyzed Soy Protein/Vegetable Amino Acids/Lysine Hydroxypropyltrimonium Chloride; Phytantriol; Polysorbate 20; Keratin Amino Acids; Hydrolyzed Vegetable Protein PG-Propyl Silanetriol; Tocopheryl Acetate; Panthenol; Ascorbic Acid; Niacinamide; Biotin; Fragrance (Parfum); Linalool; Benzyl Salicylate; Yellow 6 (CI 15985)

Or should I just do more deep conditioning? For my moisture treatment I am doing a partial SMT method, conditioner, olive oil and agave (instead of honey). I can not find plain aloe and usually use fsg instead but made my new batch while waiting on the PT to be done and it was not cool enough to add.

Thanks again for your help and advice!

DEL2C 01-06-2012 06:34 PM

If your hair is feeling rough after your PT it may be time to lay off the protein & go for a good mosturizing DT

EsmeCullen 01-06-2012 08:30 PM

My hair has been dry and icky due to over bleaching; I found the best thing has been an overnight treatment of redken all soft deep con.

Sent from my iPhone using CurlTalk

Mirabella 01-06-2012 11:31 PM

EsmeCullen - is the redken free of cones? Since henna'ing my hair (which I love and plan to do again) I find I can not use cones even if I wanted to because they make my hair feel plasticky like doll hair, and really yucky.

I rinsed out the DT and my hair felt super soft and silky but still tangled a lot in the shower. I was able to comb through it with less difficulty than before though so I'll probably try another DT this weekend maybe leave it in over night. I styled with FGS(zero additives), garnier curl shaping gel (forgoing the pump and applying it by hand) and LOOB. Hair turned out looking pretty nice, although I think the LOOB was a little heavy in my hair. My hair feels better though, and not as many frizzies.

Perhaps I just need to find a conditioner with even more moisture and detangling, but DH has made me promise I'd use up the rest of what I have before I buy new products. I think the weather is just effecting my hair and I notice it more because I am actually paying attention to it this year. (I have noticed my skin is drier than normal too.)

I'm thinking of trying Aubrey Organics though once my sauve and tresseme stash are gone in a couple weeks.

jenimkat 01-07-2012 10:01 AM

Mirabella~I had a similar dry tangly hair freak out when washing my hair after henna. Im sure you mentioned this but I can't remember-did you say yo co-wash or low-poo or shampoo? Also, what conditioners are you using right now? I ask because I found that after henna my hair really hated many low-poos but responded well to deva lowpoo and yes to carrots and yes to tomatoes poo. (I cant co-wash, my scalp hates that). I even have to use a regular shampoo sometimes. I found that yes to carrots condish and other conditioners with olive oil, and basically any oils or behemetromion methosulfate high on the list realllyyy helped me by cutting down on the detangling time alot. I've even doused my head in olive oil and saran-wrapped it and let that sit for half an hour before washing, and that helped too:) I also started sort of laying the conditioner on my hair and letting it sit a bit before finger combing it through. I also use less product after henna and get that weird stringy effect after cones sometimes! Good luck to you!

Mirabella 01-07-2012 10:37 AM

My hair loves olive oil and I have seriously considered doing that. Shampoos though have been severely drying my hair, even low poos (I used Burts Bees).

I have been co-washing with tresseme naturals or sauve ocean breeze mostly. I used Aussie Moist for a little while but the Bis-Aminopropyl Dimethicone in it is not water soluble so I stopped using that all together.

I will have to try the yes to carrots then before I try the Aubrey as I can get that at my local target store. I'll look at the ingredients on the shampoo but so far most shampoos have been way to drying on my hair since henna. But that might just be weather related because i dont recall having a problem with the burts bees shampoo before the weather got super cold and dry.

Nikki3b 01-07-2012 11:27 AM

In this period of time, have you used products with silicone? I had an issue with my hair similar to yours. My hair was just super dry. It was just plain nasty. I started all over. I washed with a light sulfate shampoo, followed by a moisturizing conditioner. I left it in for 3 mins. Then dried it with a towel, put a light leave in. I put it in two braids. I did this for about 2 weeks. I didn't put any styling product in it. The goal was to let my hair rest from styling products and the elements. Maybe your hair just needs a rest.
I hope this helps a little

Mirabella 01-07-2012 01:20 PM

I did, I used a gel that had silicones in the ingredients that I missed but caught after I had used it. The aussie moist I was using also had silicones. I stopped using both and used a clarifying shampoo. These problems started before I used the gel but after the Aussie. I haven't used the Aussie for a couple weeks though or any silicone product.

Nikki3b 01-07-2012 02:07 PM

Now that I recall. I was using shampoo and conditioner from herbal essences. I couldn't put a comb through my hair, it was that dry. I went and bought the all soft shampoo and conditioner by redden before I went cg. And they really helped bring the softness and balance to my hair. I got a hair cut and went cg after that.but I still let my hair rest for a while.

jenimkat 01-08-2012 09:27 AM

definetly try the olive oil!:) I know burt's bees is in my sig (gotta change that) becasue after henna it was super drying and tangly and evil on my hair. Whatever is in yes to carrots and deva lowpoo is nothing like that. Many low-poos have been worse on my hair than regular sulfates, but those i listed are not. the yes to carrots conditioner has been my saving moisturizer that i need for at least a week after henna. I should add that it or anything with behemetromium methosulfate or behemetromium chloride also help my hair a bunch!

let us know how you do:) also, i have been using fsg with hemp seed oil. love your hair, wish mine would get that long!

Mirabella 01-08-2012 01:51 PM

I will remember that regarding the Burt's Bees. I had been using it on my son as well and noticed his hair was super dry feeling yesterday.

I picked up a bottle of the Yes to Carrots Conditioner and will try it today. They did not have the Yes to Tomatoes Shampoo, but had the Carrots shampoo. So I will try that as well the next time I shampoo.

On a side note, I tried the Yes to Carrots lotion (they had a tester bottle out) and my hands felt moisturized for the first time in a long while and stayed that way way into the evening. So I am very hopeful that the conditioner will have the same effect.

Mirabella 01-08-2012 11:33 PM

Just wanted to update my results with the Yes to Carrots Conditioner. While I didnt experience as much detangling and slip as I'd like it did a better job than anything else I've been using. I also used the Yes to Carrots leave in conditioner with my usual gels (but no LOOB). Not as much hold with out the loob but I'm pleased so far. Gonna keep moisturizing and wanted to ask if Burt's Bee's deep conditioner (the shea and grapefruit one) was any good or also drying?

A picture of today's results (wish I could get my hair to actually look this red :P)

Oh I also wanted to add that I used Icequeens method for clumps and actually got curl all the way to the root for a little while. But then I was a little heavy handed trying to rearrange my funky part and the weight of my hair pulled them down a little.

Also as I continue to moisturize, will that cut down on the individual hairs that wont stay clumped? Here's a picture of what I'm talking about, but honestly I can deal with that as long as the curls stay like this :)

Thank you sooo much for everyone's help and advice :D

jenimkat 01-10-2012 05:04 PM

glad it was a little better! maybe someone on here can recommend a heavier conditioner? I did think the burt's bees deep condish was good-actually, it was pretty moisturizing and it weighed my hair down(so not like their shampoo). how long do you let your rinse out sit on your hair? your hair is so shiny:) I don't know about the individual hairs so much-i often avoid clumping because my curls are too clumpy and want to be about 3 big clumps if i let them:( good luck!

Mirabella 01-10-2012 09:45 PM

Thank you :-o My curls are prone to do the same, they start as four big clumps but as I scrunch they separate.

The first time I used the YTC conditioner I let it sit for about 10mins. I took the time to shave and do all that other shower stuff I had been neglecting since I had been spending so much time detangling my hair before. After that I have not had as much time to let it sit, probably between 3 and 5 minutes, these were quick showers for me though as my kiddo (3 years) was already awake so I kinda had to get in, get washed and get out while he entertained himself giving his cars a bath in the sink. I am happy with this conditioner though and I think I'll keep using it for awhile.

I went and got the YTC shampoo today as I really wanted something less drying for my son (we wash his hair more often). I decided to try it on a strand of my own hair just to test it out and make sure it wouldn't be to drying and I am very pleased with the results. My hair didnt feel stripped just clean. I also didnt put any conditioner on this one strand but a little fsg and I am pretty impressed. I'll prolly do a whole head wash tomorrow or thursday so I'll update then.

Mirabella 01-11-2012 07:33 PM

I used the shampoo today and I am happy with it. But I still ran into a problem with the right side of my hair. I part my hair in the middle to untangle and I always have a very difficult time with the right side. The left side was smooth silky, detangled with absolutely no problems at all. I was soo happy. But the right side acted like I didn't even have conditioner in it. I do sleep on that side the most, but I flip back and forth a lot so end up sleeping on both (prolly 70% right side, 30% left). Should it make that much of difference between detangling?

I do have a satin pillowcase (and sheets!) on back order, but those wont arrive til the end of the month. But I do not wear a sleep cap or anything like that because I haven't found one that will stay on my head. The one I have usually slips at the forehead/ear area and causes a lot of frizz so I don't bother with it.

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