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-   -   Am I killing my hair? I feel like crying now, please help!(

Neleke 04-18-2013 02:34 PM

Am I killing my hair? I feel like crying now, please help!
I started wearing my hair curly (stopped flat ironing) on february 21st and had a 2b curl pattern then, got CG on march 8th and I felt my hair getting way healthier... My hair was really healthy between march 15th and the end of march. In that time my curl pattern definitely was 2c. Since the beginning of april my hair was getting worse again (less healthy, smaller clumps) and since the beginning of this hair is a total mess, back to 2b at most, a lot of frizz, drier.

First of all: I don't know my properties, am waiting for the results of my analysis. When my hair was healthy, I was convinced that it was fine and low porosity. Because of the strange things that are happening to my hair I guess I might be completely wrong as well.

I'll try to explain what I have been doing to my hair since march 8th and I hope that someone of you will know what I'm doing wrong, if I'm killing my curls and how to repair it.

On march 7th, the hairdresser dyed my hair (darker than my natural colour) as usual (my hair gets dyed every 6 to 8 weeks) and it didn't react badly.
A day after that I got CG, I found a sulfate free shampoo that I use every week and I conditioned my hair 3 times a week with Yes To Cucumbers and Ultra doux (both siliconefree) and used a L'Oreal Mousse called Silk & Gloss. The first week I airdried but since my hair took too long to airdry during the winter I started diffusing. Everything was great with that combination until the end of march.

Special treatments:
March 13th I did a honey-olive oil treatment that I left on my hair for half an hour before rinsing it out.
March 20th I did a banana-milk-egg-honey-olive oil treatment that I left on my hair for half an hour before rinsing it out.
March 28th I did my first IAGirl gelatin treatment for 5 minutes.
April 3rd I did a gelatin treatment for 15 minutes
April 8th I did a gelatin treatment for 30 minutes
Today I did a avocado-honey-olive oil treatment for an hour.
==> With those treatments I didn't really notice a lot of difference compared with before but maybe they have longterm"results" that are killing my curls?

So... curls started getting more limpy and less curly at the beginning of april, and got a mess at the beginning of this week.

What happened this week?
- dews went from in the 30s to 45-50
- hair dresser dyed my hair but my hair never reacted this bad on dye before (most of the times my hair would even feel softer after dying)

Am I messing up my protein-moisture balance?
Am I killing my curls?
What can I do to get my lovely curls back instead of this mess that I can't even describe because frizz and less curl aren't even the worst of the problem... it's really a mess...

Jas? Dusa? Kathymack? Anyone, please?

Neleke 04-18-2013 02:40 PM

oh... and the Mousse I am using since march 8th and that was fabulous for my hair now seems to be drying my hair so I switched to fructis gel with bamboo extract which gives me less dry hair (still siliconefree)

Corrina777 04-18-2013 02:41 PM

It could be protein/moisture, or it could e an ingredient that your hair doesn't like. Some people can only use certain ingredients in certain dew points, so weather changes can make a huge difference for some people. Knowing your hair properties will be a huge help, but in the meantime, try eliminating one product at a time to see if it's a product issue.

lucyprimrose 04-18-2013 03:28 PM

Sounds like you've been using quite a lot of protein treatments, which might be a good thing, but it is also an obvious place to change things for now and see if it helps. Stick with moisture based stuff for a while and see if things pick up. Also, did the hairdresser use any non CG products which you might need to clarify if you're back on a CG regime? You may just need to clarify/change things you're using due to build up.

I don't think products will be doing anything you can't repair, but chemical and heat processes could. It sounds like the dye you're using may not be a particularly damaging one (I'm no expert here) but if it is damaging then it could be that one time you react worse than others because it is cumulative. Probably not that, but I wouldn't dye it more than you need to.

Neleke 04-18-2013 03:38 PM

1) on my dye:
the hair dresser did use sulfate and silicone shampoos ==> I used a sulfate shampoo after to get rid on the cones
+ my dye is a demi-permanent, not a permanent, and the hair dresser only coloured my roots this time, not the lenghts (usually she dyes both roots and ends)

Ok: I will try to do a lower-proteinroutine...
But what would be DT's without protein? Moisturising homemade DT's without protein?

My hair is dry (not wet) now and it seems to be a bit (slight bit) better than the last 4 days. (not less frizzy or less dry, but less a mess, a bit more defined) but I had to rewet my hair before it got a bit decent... I used the gel instead of the mousse and that got a bit better ...

anonymous_133347 04-18-2013 04:22 PM

Hi, Neleke! I'm sooo not an expert but here it my two cents. If the dews are in the 40s and 50s that's the optimal curl range. Usually this is the range that people can use more humectants not have the them steal moisture from the hair or slurp it from the atmosphere either, right? Then again it might be that this product has been drying your hair out over time and is only starting to show its true colors now. So I suspect it is more the styling product than the dye. If your hair never reacted adversely to the dyeing before then I don't see why it should now unless your hairdresser botched it. Seems unlikely. Don't worry. You're not killing your hair. If you've gone CG and are doing all these nice things for it then it is much healthier overall. I think it is important to use a lot of conditioner to keep it hydrated when you wash it but what is more important is what you are using to style. Mousses tend to be very drying because of the propellant that in them that makes them foam.

So are these the ingredients in the silk & gloss mousse:

Studio Line Silk & Gloss - Studio Line Silk & Gloss Mousse Volume | L'Oréal Paris


So I see some drying ingredients here. Isobutane, propane, but also a whole lotta stuff I do not recognize at all (read: chemicals). Hydrolyzed silk and glucose are humectants which can dry out your hair or cause frizz if you're sensitive to them in certain dews. (Funny though because you're in the optical dew range but curly hair has a mind of its own.) Decyl glucoside I think is actually a mild surfactant that helps cleanse the hair so maybe that could be potentially drying to leave in your hair over time. But back to the chemicals I don't recognize. I ran the product through the Skin Deep Cosmetic Safety Database's product report and it came out a 6/10 which on the high end of moderate hazard to your health. Just letting you know. Also benzyl alcohol, while naturally occurring, is really iffy in high concentrations and it's the second ingredient.

Skin Deep® Cosmetics Database | Environmental Working Group

The reason I mention this is because I think the primary reason why my hair is very healthy right now (and this is just me, but it's my opinion) is not only because I've gone CG but because I've gone natural. I try to use products with fewer synthetic ingredients. I think it's better for the health of my hair (being facetious because I know hair is dead) and my body overall. Many unnatural products tend to make my hair frizz and dry it out in unusual ways. My hair is very sensitive. But then it is highly porous.

That is another thing. Does your hair feel dry or does it feel mushy and flyaway? Trying to determine if it's in need of more moisture or if it is overconditioned. If you've tried three gelatin treatments and they are not having an effect then I'm thinking the former. And that might not be from too much protein but your mousse drying you out.

Maybe you should try gently clarifying with cocobetaine to get rid of any traces of chemicals and then go to the drugstore and experiment with a slightly more natural styling product. I know there are more natural styling mousses too like Jane Carter wrap & roll. I can't remember where you are exactly, Neleke, but aren't you in Europe? You should check out iherb and contact aqua_lily for product recommendations. I know you don't know your exact properties yet but if you suspect you're fine she's fine too. How long til you receive your hair analysis, you think? I would also hold off on the gelatin treatments for a bit to see if that helps. Just keep it as simple as possible.


Neleke 04-18-2013 04:36 PM

I am definitely going to keep it simpler and will stay away from the gelatin for a while (until after the analysis).
I just sent my hair sample last Friday, and the lady at the Post Office told me it would arrive in Florida like... yesterday probably, so I still have to wait "a long time".

The problem is that I do not really know what natural products are proteins and which are not...

Gelatin treatment is a protein treatment, that's something I know.

But what about EVOO, honey, banana, avocado?
Is it honey-EVOO protein-free?
I'm going to stay away from the mousse for a while (probably till winter since it did work great for me in low dews) and go on the gel... I'm thinking about buying BHRG and have bought flax seeds but haven't had the time to make FSG yet (will probably do so in about 3 weeks).

I sooo hope that I have a "decent" hairday tomorrow. It doesn't have to be good, but just "decent" because I'm sick of the updos I had to do this week (although I did get 2 compliments with them, but it feels like my hair is in prison... I have a LOT of hair and clips usually are too small for my hair ==> prisonfeeling)

Neleke 04-18-2013 04:40 PM

2 Attachment(s)
Btw: this was my hair at it's healthiest point... and it wasn't even that healthy yet then, so it could've had much better potential... and yes... I do want it back!

iroc 04-18-2013 04:43 PM

I only do treatments once a month - twice a month is I'm feeling dry - every week only if I've been bleaching and my hair is like straw.

Protein treatments, for me, I don't need often. Protein in any form, DTs, conditioner, products, make my hair dry and frizzy. That includes wheat protein, and silk proteins.

I don't take issue w amodimethicone, or the occasional dimethicone. Cyclomethicone and the cyclo...oxane are the devil to me.

I actually shampoo daily. I don't condition. I do a moisturizing DT monthly. I color my hair. It is very healthy. It takes a while of trial and error to find a medium of what works for you.

anonymous_133347 04-18-2013 04:57 PM

Avocado and banana have protein. EVOO and honey don't although honey is a humectant. But I've never had a problem using honey to deep treat. And I have avocado oil which I like even better than olive to deep treat. (Don't worry it is protein free. It is just the oil and has been separated from the fruit.)

So I think it'll be 3 weeks to a month for the hair analysis results. BRHG is very popular and I think it should help with clumping/defining your hair and eliminating frizz. If it feel really crunchy just be sure to use some leave in conditioner underneath it. Also FSG is really great too!

Word on the updos--I don't know if you guys have goody spin pins over there but it only takes two for a decent updo. When I use these I don't feel as though my hair is being imprisoned by a ton of clips.

BTW, your hair is so, so beautiful and the hair color is to die for. Your curls will be back in no time.

lucyprimrose 04-18-2013 05:57 PM

Your hair looks in really excellent condition and it won't have lost that, don't worry, it is just going through a phase for reasons we're not quite sure of but I think the tips people have given you could well be the reason. I haven't really done homemade DTs, so I can't really help there, sorry - I have just added bits of oil to shop bought conditioners. I agree you should keep things really simple.

It sounds like the dye was chosen/applied in a careful way so I don't think that is it, and really without a damaging chemical or heat incident your hair will not have dried out irreparably or been is just acting up. I think low poo and avoiding major protein/heavy treatments for a bit might do it. But I don't like the look of those mousse ingredients, seems like a lot of potentially drying things and not much moisture.

Neleke 04-19-2013 02:47 AM

I'm thinking of buying the BRHGgel in a couple of hours.
Is it CG-friendly? And is it moisturising?

PomegranateCurl 04-19-2013 04:59 AM

Hey there! I can't really speak to the BRHG. But I do know that my hair uncurls if I overdo or under-do protein. The big difference is how it feels... if it feels crispy, especially at the ends I've usually been over-proteined. If it looks dry but feels super soft, limp, mushy and certainly not crispy at the ends, I'm probably overconditioned. The perfect balance results in the curliest. How does your hair feel?

It does look like you've been doing lots of protein treatments so maybe you've taken in too much of it, but the best way to tell is by how your hair feels.

Otherwise I would suggest what others have already: low-poo to get rid of whatever chemicals may be lingering and/or maybe try an acv rinse. You may have some buildup from something. Do any of your products include polyquats? I know some people here have issues with those. But really it could be any ingredient. Try DT's (coconut oil, olive, etc) if your hair feels crispy, and see if that helps... if it makes it worse (even more limp, mushy) then you may need more protein. And maybe stay away from styling products and try to use natural ingredients, like FSG.

Your hair looks really pretty in the pics, i'm sure you'll get it back!

mhen76 04-19-2013 05:45 AM

There are many factors that can lead to funky hair days. We're all different so everyone's opinions will be slightly different. My hair is fine and I need tons of protein. When it gets wonky, it's usually because I'm overconditioned (very soft, mushy frizz) or because I need to clarify (stringy, droopy). No matter how careful I am with products, my water is hard and I need to shampoo out the gunk. Regular rinses with ACV helps me but I still have to clarify at least once monthly.

Neleke 04-19-2013 12:59 PM

I went on a shopping spree today (in fact in search of a spring/summer jacket...) and the product junkie in me ended up with a lot of new products...

-I have bought the BRHG as I already wanted to (already have dried a little drop on dry hair to repair it after rain and wind, and it has a "nice" result. Still have to try it on wet hair though)

- have bought Luster's Pink XVO Hair milk (and the woman from the shop looked at me like: what? But.. you aren't black... since that product is stored in the "black section" of the store...) It has: Deionized water, mineral oil, polysorbate 80, sorbitan oleate, glycerin, olive oil, beeswax, ethylhexyl hydroxystearate, tocopherol (vitamin E), Retinyl Palmitate (vitamin A), panthenol (provitamin B5), corn oil, petrolatum, fragrance, limonene, hexyl cinnamal, benzyl benzoate, linalool, methylparaben, propylparaben, imizadolidinyl urea, sodium borate

- I entered the body shop for the first time and bought:
Rainforest Radiance shampoo (normal bottle), Rainforest moisture shampoo (minibottle), rainforest moisture conditioner (minibottle), rainforest moisture butter (mini "jar"), rainforest coconut hair oil
I have tried the coconut hair oil and it had nice results (more shine, more definition, less frizz)

Are there things in these products I should be worried about? Or did I buy "good" products? Are they moisturising? And proteinfree or at least not protein heavy?

I'll stop buying products.... some day :p

Corrina777 04-19-2013 01:31 PM

Some of the products might be a bit heavy, and mineral oil is one of those ingredients that some people like and others do not. Overall, I don't see anything that makes alarms go off in my head, nor do I see any majorly obvious protein sources.

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