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allie.clark. 07-11-2013 03:51 AM

I have 2b to 3a hair. But I'm having a lot of trouble keeping in the curls. I was with cond that is CG approved, put in a leave in while upside down. (Mixed chicks leave in cond) and put in KCCC upside down, all while wet, plop for about 20 minutes and diffuse until about 3/4 dry. My hair takes a while to dry and its pretty thin and the diffusing helps lock in curls and give it some body. I have damage because I have been straightening my hair for years so I don't expect it to curl really well everywhere. The KCCC really seems to help define my curls, but it gets crunchy, so after its dry I SOTC, but I lose most of my curls! I'm doing it gently. Any ideas of what I can try?

kathymack 07-11-2013 05:08 AM

First thing you need to do is identify your hair properties. Here's a link to help Curly Hair Basics | Live Curly Live Free It's the best way to choose ingredients.

Mixed Chicks li has Amodimethicone and Emulsifying Wax as the third and forth ingredients. May be causing build up for you, especially if you're not using something to remove them.

Do you have a cut with appropriate layers?? That helps to lighten things up--helps the curls to stay in place once they are "set." If your hair is fine and damaged, you may need to add a lot more protein into your regime (and depending on your hair, counter with moisture) to strengthen your curl pattern and maintain the curl.

allie.clark. 07-11-2013 05:31 AM

Holy smokes! I got that leave in when I was first starting CG and didn't realize it had cones and wax in it! As for my hair type, I have not been able to make sense of it. Will a clarifying shampoo get out all the crap
I've been putting in it?
As for proteins, my cond has wheat protein in it and I'm pretty sure Shea moisture curling cream has protein too? So I am getting some. I have Aussie 3 minute miracle and coconut oil that I can do a deep treatment with. Which would you recommend after I wash the stuff out I shouldn't have put in?

allie.clark. 07-11-2013 05:45 AM

Oh btw yes, I had to drive over an hour to a Solon that was trained with the CG method to get a proper haircut with layers. Oddly though she used deva products and they didn't make my hair curl very well.
Thanks for the article link. I think that was the best one I have read to explain it. I have mixed hair texture but I think it's mostly medium and high porosity.

kathymack 07-11-2013 05:48 AM

Hair type is relatively unimportant because it's transient depending on products, techniques, dewpoint, etc. It's properties that helps (and helps people give you advice.) I wouldn't make any suggestions without knowing your properties. My fine/low porosity hair doesn't like straight oil/butter, but does like them in well formulated products. I don't know the ingredients of the Aussie product. I'd read the ingredients carefully (as you should do with anything you put in your hair) before using it.

Clarifying shampoo will remove things, but you may be able to use a lowpoo. IMHO, wheat protein isn't the best. It's a cheap by product of manufacturing other products. Not sure which SM product you're using. I find that the Coconut Hibiscus line just sits on my hair and has to be washed out. Some protein molecules are too large to be absorbed, so you may not be getting the protein you think you are.

Firefox7275 07-11-2013 06:26 AM

Agree with KathyMack, work with your hair properties and dew points/ humidity when choosing ingredients and products. Beneficial ingredients for damaged hair include hydrolysed protein, coconut oil, ceramides and panthenol. An imbalance of certain humectants (attract water) or occlusives (sealants/ barrier) ingredients can cause hair to flop.

Glycerin and/ or silicone in the Mixed Chicks could be causing an issue, amodimethicone resists build up tho so I don't think that is the main culprit. Shea butter can also build up and weigh thin or fine hair down. Interestingly Devacurl products also contain glycerin.

Are you sure your hair is 100% bone dry when you SOTC? Being crunchy doesn't necessarily denote dryness, some products or combinations go crunchy then soften up as they dry fully many hours later. Humectants will substantially slow drying time in certain climates and there are even more humectants (aloe vera and agave nectar) in your Curling Custard. Too many humectants could well be why your thin hair is taking so long to dry. Whilst protein is recommended for your hair, that can also act as a mild humectant but is good for curl boosting.

What you don't seem to be using much of is the basic ingredients of a leave in conditioner - emollients (fatty alcohols and cationic surfactants). These aid clumping and help the hair hold the right amount of water without acting as powerful humectants and keeping the hair 'over moisturised'.

Personally I would clarify, do a weak to moderate protein treatment such as the DIY gelatin, then switch to a more basic conditioner rich in emollients but low in humectants, possibly containing some protein. I would drop both the Shea Moisture and the Mixed Chicks but keep the Mixed Chicks and Curling Custard so you still have some humectants.

allie.clark. 07-11-2013 07:10 AM

Sorry for the mixup, but I am using KCCC not mixed chicks custard. I gotta admit I am feeling overwhelmed with trying to get this all straight. Emoliants and humectants? Are there any easy to read articles on this that explain and give you examples of them?
I am fairly certain my hair is completely dry when I SOTC.

Firefox7275 07-11-2013 07:49 AM


Originally Posted by allie.clark. (Post 2189709)
Sorry for the mixup, but I am using KCCC not mixed chicks custard. I gotta admit I am feeling overwhelmed with trying to get this all straight. Emoliants and humectants? Are there any easy to read articles on this that explain and give you examples of them?
I am fairly certain my hair is completely dry when I SOTC.

No sorry it was my mistake. I did understand you but managed to typo and miss out the word AND, will edit now in red. I've briefly put what emollients and humectants are in brackets, there is a recent lengthy thread on that if you run through the first couple of pages of this board (title something like the difference between moisturiser and conditioner). Also check out the 'curl chemist' articles by Tonya McKay here on the NC main site and the Natural Haven blog.

allie.clark. 07-14-2013 05:44 AM

Thank you Firefox for your help. I posted another thread about my results. Since I'm trying to do CG I'm gonna skip using mixed chicks anymore I'm not sure if I had bought it before I knew in depth what ingredients to stay away from or what. I bought Giovanni smooth as silk cond for a leave in. I clarified a few days ago and it made a big difference. Basically I used my normal conditioner, then the Giovanni for a leave in then used KCCC. My hair is quite different and I have a lot better curl definition. I did the gelatin PT last night and wow! All of you guys really were helpful. I wasn't using enough emollients I guess!

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