Can't get enough hold

So I have been giving cg a try again and I am pleased with the cleansing/conditioning part, but I am having a really hard time finding a gel that gives me enough hold. I know that it's good to try to avoid protein, cones, and polyquats in gel, but without them I'm having problems. Especially the polyquats. I have tried herbal essences totally twisted which does have dimethicone in it, but I don't get good definition at all. I was told that set me up is good (I think that's what it is called) but I noticed that it has polyquats so I was nervous. I have also tried Tresemme bouncy curls which is an extra hold, but that doesn't work great for me either. The thing that I do like is that my hair dries much faster with these gels, and I don't get the "crunch." I know that having crunchy hair has caused a lot of breakage. While my hair is drying it looks so great, but within about 4 hours it starts to get frizzy looking and I lose the definition. I used to use gels like Ouidad Tres fx & Climate Control as well as Biolage Gelee, but I hate how crunchy they make my hair. Would you agree that it is because of polyquats?

What should I do? Also, are polyquats water soluable?
3B, Fine, Low Porosity, & High Hair Density
I never had problems with polyquats. They are CG friendly. Try gels with a #10 hold (maxiumum hold) on the label Like LA Looks or La Bella.
3b-3c CG
The demithicone in the Totally Twisted is peg so water soluable.
I use PVP gels, that gives hold. That Suave #10 has good hold.

I dont' think you have to avoid protein but I don't think at least in my hair it adds to hold. It does sometimes give me more curl or frizz depending on what kind of protein and what it's combined with.

If you leave a good leave in conditioner under BRHG it lessens the crunch so it can be scrunched out easier. I can't get hold at all without at least some crunch. I just concider it a fact of life.

Polyquats don't necessarily make the hair crunchy, Boots Curl creme which makes my hair really soft has polyquats in it. They have polyquats in some cg and non cg shampoos (meaning sulfates and no sulfates)
Low porosity, medium texture.

If it smells good put it in your hair, if it tastes good spit it out!
Count me as another one who does fine with polyquats - in fact I look for products with them because they usually work well for me. IMHO I wouldn't expend a lot of energy trying to avoid ingredients that you don't know you have trouble with - you'll just drive yourself crazy trying to find products you can use!
thick 3b; currently loving Devacurl and Kinky-Curly

Thanks, CurlyinCO!
thick 3b; currently loving Devacurl and Kinky-Curly

I do OK with polyquats, in say a B&A style gel, but I don't get the same big, fat clumpy curl definition I get if I use a PVP/VA gel, like Got2B or Angell. But the polyquats give more softness. I've started layering them: the PVP/VA on my wet hair before it goes into the towel, then polyquat gel afterward.

I have learned that PVP alone (w/out the VA) doesn't hold in humidity for me. And there's an article by Curly Chemist giving examples of which polyquat's do best in humidity.
3B, bra-strap length
laidback, very-modified CGer
HG: GF Sleek 'n Shine Leave-in; Alagio
Thanks for all of the feedback. I was thinking today that I will probably layer my gels, so it was cool to read that others do that too.
3B, Fine, Low Porosity, & High Hair Density
Posts: n/a
Totally Twisted is a medium hold gel. I would suggest Set Me Up or Body Envy for stronger hold.
I use either the set me up or the body envy.. i prefer the body envy. I like a tad bit more hold than either have so I will spritz the HE hairspray on top while its still wet.

I always have a little crunch that I just scrunch out. Never had a problem with breakage tho. HTH!
Precious Honey
3c with some 3b at the bottom.
Im lovin HENNA
Light protein use

Co-wash: Suave Daily Clarifying Co
Rinse-out: Back to Basics Pom Peach (old bottle) or GVP Conditioning Balm
DT: GVP Condidtioning Balm with heat
Leave in: Elucence MBC
Gel: HEBE or Aussie Instant Freeze gel.
Shampoo: Elucence Moisture Balance

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