Tell Me What To Do - PLEASE

This is my 4th post here. I signed up yesterday and with the exception of dinner time and an evening swim, I was here until 1AM reading. I started a post last night and lost it mid way in and started to ball because I was so overwhelmed. So I went to bed and decided to give it a try tonight.

I'm not sure what my hair type is, so here are some pictures.

Sunday we took our family photo and I had to put TONS of 5 different products in it to make it look 1/2 way decent. Didn't wash it at all yesterday. Here is is after the swim last night.

Here it is after I washed it with my boys Johnson & Johson Baby Shampoo because my poo had a word that has cone on the end. I had to use my conditiner though because that is all I have in the house (both Garnier Fructis Curl & Shine). I didn't put any product in it afterwards.

In the first picture you can see the frizzies. You can also kind of see my straight piece right in front of my face. All I know about my hair is it is very very thick. Everyone who has ever cut it has told me that. It takes about 4 to 5 hours to dry.

So what type of hair do you think I have?

Let me tell you a little bit about my hair care. I don't wash it everyday, I do know that dries it out and I just don't have time to. I have tried MANY different products. When I do wash, I usually poo 2 times to get all the crap out that I have put in, put in condish and leave it in while I finish my shower. I bend over at the waist. let my hair hang down and use a pick to get the knots out. If they are really bad, I use knot forgotten by Aussie to help. When I'm done rinsing, I twist it up onto my head. I get out of the shower and twist the water out of it and up into a towel it goes. I have used Neutrogena Anti Residue poo when I think my hair needs it. (Was/is that ok?) I can count on one hand the number of times I have blown my hair out in the past 5 years. I don't ever try to dry it straight, it gets waayyyy to frizzy and poofy.

I let it dry a while but not too much because then it's too dry to put anything in it. I have used everything under the sun and nothing seems to work. It always ends up dry looking, no curl to it and extremely poofy. So it usually ends up in a ponytail. When I take it down, the sides are sort of curly and straight down the back is straight.

So based on that, please tell me what to do and I will do it. If you tell me to eat pigs feet every third day for 6 hours I will. If you tell me that I can't sleep laying down ever again, I'll do it.

I know this is not an overnight fix, and I'm ok with that. It's been this bad this long, a little while longer isn't going to kill me. What products should I start out with? What should I do? It is all so overwhelming.

PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE guide me. I'm willing to try anything. I would love to say money isn't an object, but it is.

I look forward to all of your help and suggestions. I just want to say, THANK YOU SO MUCH from the bottom of my heart. I'm literally in tears right now because I know my nightmare hair is soon to be behind me.
~~Lorraine, mom to Nikolas 8/30/04, Troi 5/20/06 and 3 angel babies

It is hard to say good-bye when you never had the chance to say hello
Hi I know your fustration I posted mine a fewd ays ago and have been have some better results thanks to the help.
I dont know a whole lot about what your doing wrong but one thing right off the bat I see is how you are drying your hair.
DONT TWIST YOUR HAIR IN A TOWEL. that causes alot of frizz you have to scrunch it like cup your hands in the towel and squish your hair. When you ring it out when its wet it disturbs the natural curl pattern and causes a lot of frizz. Scrunch your hair with a towel instead. Microfiber towels are best and some people use paper towels. I use a microfiber towel and find that helps.
As for products and stuff I am pretty new so Ill leave that to some more experienced curlies to help you out on. I dont want to steer you wrong. But I found that scrunching helps out with frizz ALOT.
Good luck and I hope that bit helps.
Hair Type: 2b/3a, baby fine, porous
Current Routine: DevaCurl NoPoo DevaCurl One Conditioner
CurlyQ2 Thank you so much for my first step towards nicer hair, no twisting. I forgot to add that I do twist it up on my head when I put the conditioner in it. Is that ok?

Scrunching from here on out. Will have to get one of those towels too. I'm just using a 100% cotton towel.
~~Lorraine, mom to Nikolas 8/30/04, Troi 5/20/06 and 3 angel babies

It is hard to say good-bye when you never had the chance to say hello
Hi, well maybe you can start off by getting yourself the Curly Girl book by Lorraine Massey. Alot of us on here follow her techniques which is the no shampoo and washing with conditioner then conditioning again leaving some condish to coat the hair, next find yourself a nice gel with no silicones. There alot at the drugstore LA Looks makes alot of nice gels.
There is also another method we use here its called plopping( I think if you do a search you will find it. It is a way to wrap the hair after you wash and put product in. good look ypu hair looks like a 2C right now but I think with the right products ypu will definately be a 3A. HTH
3A some 3b Total Product Junkie
Welcome! I hope you'll find the information here helpful in making peace with your hair! You're in good company.

At this point you appear to be a type 2. Going by the typing, it looke like you're probably a 2C because your hair appears to be kinda coarse but that's so hard to tell just from pictures. Looks like you have some definite type 3 curl potential with the right care.

It looks like your hair needs quality moisture, and lots of it.

A lot of people find J&J Baby Shampoo to be quite drying.

Sunday we took our family photo and I had to put TONS of 5 different products in it to make it look 1/2 way decent.
Originally Posted by NikoTroi
Which products are you currently using?

I think you should be able to find some stuff that will work for you that won't require you to wash twice to get it out.

I let it dry a while but not too much because then it's too dry to put anything in it.
Originally Posted by NikoTroi
By this do you mean that you let your hair dry before applying product? Most people (myself included) find that to be a one way ticket to frizzville. It really seems to make a lot of difference to put you product into wet hair.

Which stores do you have access to? Do you have an Ulta? Trade Secret? Are you able to order online?
2/f/i, waist length w/ long layers
pwd: hair

~a wave in a sea of curls
I think everyone feels that frusteration with our hair! I'm no expert and pretty new to the CG thing, but I can tell you what worked for me and what I think will work for you. First, I think you need a haircut- your ends look like they need trimming. I would recommend someone who you know can can actually cut curly. Second, I second the opinion that you need to stop putting your hair in a towel. I also think you need to minimize your products. But I'm sure there are people on this board that can help you with that better than I can. Do you use a leave in conditioner? Do you brush or comb your hair?
Indian girl with full head of very thick curls (3A, 3B and 3C)
CG Routine, protein sensitive

The longer I live the more beautiful life becomes.
-Frank Lloyd Wright
If I was to type your hair I would say 3A Botticelli. Some might say you're a 2- but I think once your hair is hydrated you will have more defined curl. I would get the CG Book and also I think deva products are a great starting off point until you figure out what works for you: DevaCurl One Condition and No Poo. They are available on this site unde the CurlMart Tab (so is the CG book). There is also a DevaCurl Gel (Angell) but its nothing to write home about IMO- I think a drugstore brand can work just as well (as keewee said watch out for silicones). You might also want to try a deep treatment. I like Ojon Restorative treatment but its way expensive and many don't like the smell. I'm sure someone else can recommend a cheaper, or even homemade DT for you.
You will have great results- your hair looks much better than mine did pre-CG.
Good Luck!
Rather than love, than money, than fame, give me truth. I sat at a table where were rich food and wine in abundance, and obsequious attendance, but sincerity and truth were not;
and I went away hungry from the inhospitable board.
-Henry David Thoreau
All I can say is WOW!! You guys are amazing. I knew I'd get help here. Ok, I have to start replying to these posts now

Keewee I know I have to get the book soon. I tried LA Looks years ago and really don't remember the outcome but will pick that up tomorrow.

meriellyn I do have A LOT of coarse hair in there. Some of the hair on the crown is black, extremely kinky and thick. What kind of moisture do you recommend? All I am using right now is Biolage curl defining cream. However on Sunday, I used that, Aussie dual personality mousee & conditioner, Bed Head Uptight (heat activated curl maker), Catwalk root boost and then Suave hairspray. I don't do that every day, just Sunday to make it look semi-decent for the pictures. I put the Biolage in when it's damp, not soaking, but I will change that too soaking! I can get to Ulta, Trade Secrets, Sally Beauty and probably others. I am in Northern Delaware, about 45 minutes outside of Philly.

IndianCurlyGirl Yes I do need a haircut. I have slacked because with two small kids my needs get put on the back burner, and as you said, I need someone who can cut curly hair. The only person that really ever did good was about 8 years ago when I lived in VA. I'm so fearful that they are going to screw it up, that I don't get it cut. I know the wrong thinking but... I use a pick only in the shower. Don't brush or comb ever, it would be way too poofy.

realistic I saw those products and thought they would be in my budget. Just didn't want to invest and not have them work.

Two questions...
The neutrogena anti residue, is that ok to use? Alberto VO5 hot oil treatment, what about that?

THANK YOU AGAIN LADIES for all of your help.
~~Lorraine, mom to Nikolas 8/30/04, Troi 5/20/06 and 3 angel babies

It is hard to say good-bye when you never had the chance to say hello
I've had great luck with Jessicurl products, and that might be a good place to start. Gentle shampoos and very moisturizing conditioners. Nice stuff.

You seem to be wanting to know a lot about the "how to's" I've discovered there are many ways to do CG, but she has some videos on her site that I think are very helpful!

You might end up using different products, but many of us have tried lots of different products, and I personally think Jessicurl is a great place to start.
3b, fine, but LOTS of it...
Try this post as a jumping-off point:

I know it's a lot to take in, and I myself (a newbie) am still fumbling with a lot of the abbreviations used here, but I think one thing to take in is that there are no quick fixes when it comes to hair, so it's ok if you go slow at first.

Another I'd personally suggest is put down the products. I know it's hard, but using a lot of junk I think is the fastest way to weighing down the curl and sucking the life out of it. I know it might not look how you want it to yet without all the products, but it'll pick up pretty quickly, especially if you haven't been heat styling.

Best of luck!
3A low/medium porosity, medium texture

Current products:
Stylers: HE Tousle Me Softly, Condition 3-in-1 Mousse
Conditioners: Terax Crema, Mill Creek Botanicals Henna Conditioner
Cleanser: DevaCurl NoPoo
Yea dont twist your hair at all its just bad and the CG book is awesome I got it a few years ago before I even found this website. Ive seen it in Borders and Books a Million I think i got it on sale there for like ten dollars. Or if you shop online amazon usually has their books pretty cheap.
I thought for conditioners you might want to check this link out this person tried out lots of conditioners and rated them. I found it extremely useful.
Hair Type: 2b/3a, baby fine, porous
Current Routine: DevaCurl NoPoo DevaCurl One Conditioner
I agree you hair needs moisture I think that would improve it alot. One thing you can do now with the products you have it coat your hair with conditioner before washing. Then dilute your shampoo they are all to strong and apply to the scalp only. Then apply conditoner again and let it sit for as long as you can then dont rinse it all out. You can leave alot of conditoner in your hair it looks really thick so it shouldnt weigh it down, just rinse for maybe a second Also until you get a micro towel try using paper towels to dry your hair with this will cut down on the frizz. I agree with the Jessicurl recommendation Too Shea is excellant for dry hair it has really saved mine. You could get the trial pack from Jessicurl it has everything you need in it just make sure it is the one with the Hair Cleansing Creme and Too Shea in it.
i just spend an hour typing a message here but it disappeared and did not get posted

I won't type all that again, too late in the evening. But here's the gist...

My hair is very similar to yours...but only it is a million times more frizz/poofy. Or should I say was.

Now it is about 95% frizz free! Which is saying lots!

I don't comb or brush my hair at all (not even in the shower), I don't use any towels or heat- just drip/air dry...sure my shirt gets soaking wet, but it is well worth the results (I might try paper towels in the future just to see, but I'd hate to waste them). I rake gel through my hair and then scrunch gel in while still in the shower. I do not touch my hair at all afterwards (even when dry).

I know there was a lot more that I had to say which I did say, but it disappeared and didn't get posted, but this'll have to do for now.
Wavy, dry, protein sensitive, coarse, highly overly porus, very low elasticity, medium-thick density, very prone to split ends
Avoids: Sulphates, Silicones, Protein, Mineral oil, Petroleum, Polyquaternium, Sodium/Magnesium, Heat
Mod-CG since June 2007
If I was to type your hair I would say 3A Botticelli. Some might say you're a 2- but I think once your hair is hydrated you will have more defined curl.
Originally Posted by realistic
I would agree with this. In fact, the hair in your pics looks like mine has done in the past, I get very little real curl when my hair is "sad". My hair is extremely coarse too.

Take a good look through your products. I found that lots of so-called curly products are loaded with cones and drying chemicals, which ruin curls, ironically. Ditch the ones with ingredients ending in 'cone or 'xane, and look out for alcohol denat. Like msjanani said, less is more. Nowadays I just use a curl creme and gel.

Ditch the hairbrush, and detangle when wet, with conditioner. Above all, handle your hair with extreme care and respect.

Lastly, don't give up! It took me weeks to find a routine that suited me, my hair doesn't follow many of the general curly "rules", I have had to adapt quite a few of them to suit me. Sooo many tears and tantrums!! But now I'm loving my curls, they look better than they ever have.

Good luck on your curl journey, and please come back with updates, I can't wait to see how lovely your hair looks when its had some TLC

Lots of curly love

Liz xx

P. S. Is your anti residue poo a clarifying poo? If so it is probably too harsh, they are extremely strong with twice as many sulphates. Perhaps you might want to use it one more time before you start avoiding 'cones etc. just to rid your hair of any to begin with.
Here are my curly pics, password is fuzz

But then again, too few to mention...
I think everyone here has said anything i wouldve suggested, lol.
But have you ever been to manayunk in philly?
Theres a beauty store called Beans Beauty and there is a salon on top of it. Working there is a deva-trained (trained by the author of Curly Girl, Lorraine Massey) to cut curly hair. I forget her name but she's really good, although i can't afford to get regular cuts right now by her.

Growing out hair to a little above bsl
pw: ringlets
I woke up, gave the kids breakfast and immediately came here. I'm addicted!

beckysma Thanks for the link to JessiCurl. I watched the videos and will search the site later today.

msjanani I read that post so many times. I think too many, I was so confused :/
put down the product
I will admit, that scares the crap out of me. But it can be done. I stay at home with the kids so it's not like I'm going out much.

CurlyQ2 I read that thread too and was overwhelmed with all the info. I guess if I had a better understanding of the terms, etc I would have got it. But will check it out again with a clear head.

missy60 I'm going to try the condish first thing. I never thought of diluting my poo either. They both have cones though, but it may work until I get my products in.

aaa00a Thanks for reposting for me. I was in tears when I had lost that first post with the pix and everything.

zeldagoblin I don't even own a brush. I just have a pick that I use in the shower to help get the knots out. I'll be dumping those products after this post! I'm not giving up, I know there is hope. I also can't wait to come back and post my progress pictures.


So I found a salon in my area that I might try. One of the stylists comes highly recommended on the CurlSalons section of this board. I do have one question though, what is an "Ionic Rescue-conditioning treatment" and is $80 too much for it? I've tried looking it up here and can't seem to find anything on it

Well I'm off to get some breakfast and dump my bad products.

Again, THANK YOU ALL SO MUCH for your help. I really do appreciate it all.
~~Lorraine, mom to Nikolas 8/30/04, Troi 5/20/06 and 3 angel babies

It is hard to say good-bye when you never had the chance to say hello
unique1193 You snuck in on me when I was posting I have not been to Manayunk but would definately take the drive if she was trained by the author. You can't get much better than that can you. I will have to look up the info and call to see how much she charges. We are on a budget, but I think for a good haircut (something I don't think I've ever had) I can splurge. If you remember her name, come back and let me know so I get the right person. Thanks
~~Lorraine, mom to Nikolas 8/30/04, Troi 5/20/06 and 3 angel babies

It is hard to say good-bye when you never had the chance to say hello
You already got alot of great advice already. I'm not sure what was in the links, so please forgive any repeat info. Some of those articles can be a bit overwhelming anyways. I felt like I needed a chemistry degree for a while to understand some.

My first thought, You need a good Deep conditioning treatment. A cheap one some people swear by is Aussie 3 minute miracle. There are also several recipes if you look around on this board and the Internet you'll find plenty. Just wash as usual and put the stuff in your hair then go do whatever for about 30 minutes but you may choose to do more or less. I like to use that time for chores myself. Heat helps the conditioner penetrate the hair shaft. Do this bout once a week if your hair is really dry, as your hair gets better you can do less.

You might consider changing to a wide tooth comb, or even finger combing. You pick might be breaking up your curls too much. Seemless is best, but you can find some good ones in department/grocery stores. I love my shower comb, it's either goody or conair, can't remember anymore.

I also can't recommend plopping enough, and give up the terry-cloth towels, they are a frizz magnet. I use a curlese towel, but some girls swear by old t-shirts.

Learn how to properly wash and detangle your hair, don't pile you hair on top of your head to wash, that's just asking for tangles/damage, and when you detangle start from the bottom up. These 2 simple things can make a dramatic difference and don't take anymore (or even less) time then the way most people do their hair.

Consider a condition wash, also detangle with conditioner in your hair, most people prefer using a cheap one like VO5 or suave for this purpose.

Well Products I have used that I liked. Deva-everything tried it all, and all pretty good, Nexxus-the ones for extra moisture, VO5 always good to have a cheap back-up, and this stuff is so cheap you can freely use as much as you want without it hurting your wallet. Herbal essence totally twisted gel, I love this stuff and is very popular here.

Dont touch the hair when wet, try not to mess with it as little as possible actually.

And lastly and the most difficult step, don't try too much at once. It takes alot of experimentation to find the right routine and product combo, and if you do too much it might be hard to determine what's good and what's bad.

I know it might seem like we all spend hours messing with our hair, but in actualality it's takes alot less time then it seems written down. Most of us our longest time is spent drying. and fee free to post any more questions we've all been there.
I used to detangle wet with a pick, but have switched to a very wide-toothed, seamless comb (Conair Shower Comb, $1.99), and have been getting less frizz and breakage. Also start detangling (with conditioner, rinse-out or leave-in) from the ends and gradually and gently work your way up, to avoid damage. I used to get so frustated w/ my hair that I'd yank the pick through it, causing new breakage every time.

I think your hair will be breathtaking before long, it has a lot of potential.
Hi- are you in the Phila area? I read the info about Manayunk - I am going to try Teresa at Salon mademoiselle in Haverford - great reviews on this site. I have a consult set up with her on the 17th- I cut too much off my hair the last time and now I want it to grow more before she looks at i t
2B/2C wavy
Don't Breed and Buy While Shelter Dogs Die - Adopt your next best friend!

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