Yes, You Do Need Protein

IIRC, mushy hair usually means that you need more protein.
Originally Posted by redcelticcurls
yes, that's very true

and brittle dry hair can mean too much protein.

Aubry GPB is good because of the natural protein it uses and the enzymes in them penetrate the hair shaft better than synthetic ones.

Nexus emergencee is acidifying and helps close the cuticle after the protein is deposited.

Aphoghee is heavy duty stuff and does well with people who do chemical treatments (relaxers, very drastic color or bleach) I liked it when I permed but now it is too much for my hair.

I think most of us pay close attention to our hair and I think protein is one of those things that should be used depending on the things we do to our own hair. Someone who colors and flat irons will need more protein that some who does wash and go all the time.

we should take all that into consideration instead of just feeling we are protein sensitive. also look at what else you are doing in our hair care regimen.
Thick coarse 4b hair. Holy Grail: Kinky-Curly Curling Custard. Trying to grow it to bra strap length. Currently collar bone length.
thank you, i noticed every thing that i used before that didn't work for my hair had some form of protein(thinking that i was protein sensitive), and also the products ive used before were not natural,since ive changed my routine using natural products my hair is much better and i know that every once in a while i do need some sort of protein. and with karen's im with km i haven't had to deep condition in a long time.but i still need to balance moist/protein, thanks km for this thread and to the ladies who've contributed, it helps alot with clarification when some one is not sure.
Kathymack, wheat germ oil, if it is processed properly, is protein free because it is 100% fat. Fats are protein free.
Originally Posted by redcelticcurls
Thanks, I did not know that

Also RCC, what is this GVP conditioner you say you use in your signature?
Thick coarse 4b hair. Holy Grail: Kinky-Curly Curling Custard. Trying to grow it to bra strap length. Currently collar bone length.
IIRC, mushy hair usually means that you need more protein.
Originally Posted by redcelticcurls
yes, that's very true

and brittle dry hair can mean too much protein.

Aubry GPB is good because of the natural protein it uses and the enzymes in them penetrate the hair shaft better than synthetic ones.

Nexus emergencee is acidifying and helps close the cuticle after the protein is deposited.

Aphoghee is heavy duty stuff and does well with people who do chemical treatments (relaxers, very drastic color or bleach) I liked it when I permed but now it is too much for my hair.

I think most of us pay close attention to our hair and I think protein is one of those things that should be used depending on the things we do to our own hair. Someone who colors and flat irons will need more protein that some who does wash and go all the time.

we should take all that into consideration instead of just feeling we are protein sensitive. also look at what else you are doing in our hair care regimen.
Originally Posted by Curlygoddess
True, that and the hair texture. I color and heat style and should need protein going by that. But, having coarse hair strands, I still go low protein because my hairs natural texture compensates for the processes that I use.
Kiva! Microfinance works.

Med/Coarse, porous curly.
Kathymack, wheat germ oil, if it is processed properly, is protein free because it is 100% fat. Fats are protein free.
Originally Posted by redcelticcurls
Thanks, I did not know that

Also RCC, what is this GVP conditioner you say you use in your signature?
Originally Posted by Curlygoddess
I use Generic Value Products version of the K-pak reconstructor from Sallys. I like it because it works for me and it's cheap - the only cheap thing I use, lol.

It does contain mineral oil for those who avoid it.
Kiva! Microfinance works.

Med/Coarse, porous curly.
I use Generic Value Products version of the K-pak reconstructor from Sallys. I like it because it works for me and it's cheap - the only cheap thing I use, lol.
Originally Posted by redcelticcurls
hey as long as it works...and your hair is amazing BTW

I thought GVP was a giovanni product and I was trying to figure it out for the longest.....Thanks RCC
Thick coarse 4b hair. Holy Grail: Kinky-Curly Curling Custard. Trying to grow it to bra strap length. Currently collar bone length.
Protein confuses me a lot since I've only been curly for a few months and am taking in tons of great information from this forum.

Right now for me it seems to be about balance, like others were saying. I've been trying a low protein conditioner whenever my curls seem to be losing their curliness. Also noticing that my damaged ends (from everyday flat-ironing) react different than the first inch or so of healthy hair. The super damaged parts of my hair get super brittle while the healthy parts feel stronger, curlier, and just happier.

When I started out with CG, all my conditioners were loaded with protein. My hair loved it for a good while but it freaked out after a few months, even the healthy parts.

Is there a difference between being protein sensitive and just overloaded with protein? Or are those the same thing? Good thread! There's so much to learn from all of you!
3a to 3b Medium/Coarse iii, Protein Sensitive

Occasional Cleanser: EO Products Sweet Orange Shampoo
Conditioners: VO5 or Suave Conditioners (Co-wash), GVP Conditioning Balm (Rinse Out/Leave In), AOHR (Deep Treat)
Stylers: Herbal Essences Set Me Up Gel, Karen's Body Beautiful Hair Nectar (SOTC)

As I mentioned on a thread I started yesterday (since it did not get much in the way of responses I am hopping over here to this duplicate thread which appears nice and active!....hope you don't mind! ) I think my hair needs some protein because the parts under the canopy seem unusually fine, tending to knot, and wayyyyyy less curl than usual. I had been avoiding protein because my hair would get real crispy, especially with wheat proteins. I was using a product with silk protein my hair seemed to like but I have not been able to find the product a few months now. So I have actually not used anything with protein all this time.

Since I don't live in North America I don't have your same products so I have to go by methods and ingredients.

Would you say it would be best to do a DT using a high protein restructuring hair mask......or I have some leave in keratine fiales I could use. Or would you just suggest a quick conditioning with a protein conditioner after co-washing? This last seems more like something better for maintenence to be used every now and then once I get my hair back on track. I think right now I could use a quick fix. Thoughts?

Thanks in advance. Appreciate your suggestions! Tomorrow is the day.
-3A?
-Fine, ii (almost iii) thickness
-salon pintura and natural sun-made highlights combo
-CG since October 2007, rare occasional low poo.
-Growing it out
click here for fotki pics
-pw: ziggy
Well, needless to say, I am pro-protein! For myself, anyway. That discovery and aloe vera one were hella-significant for me in understanding how this whole hair thing works.

It's funny that this is coming up right now because I recently blogged about *re*discovering protein just a couple of weeks ago. I had let my periodic Emergencee treatments go and as a result, my hair was getting droopy. One treatment later, and all was well again. I'm thinking that, for me, Emergencee every few weeks is a must.

But I also wanted to direct all of you to a really great site that a little birdie told me is actually the work of our very own StruttsWife! She talks about hair structure in easy-to-read detail:
http://www.livecurlylivefree.com/cur...r%20basics.htm

and she also debunks the silly hair classification system that Curly Girl promotes. (The type of curl you have has virtually no bearing on how to care for your hair.) Anyway, with regard to protein, she points out that fine-haired curlies are better off opting for protein-rich conditioners rather than emollient and humectant-based ones, and I found myself nodding in agreement because that's definitely been the experience on this particular head.

Anyway, it's a great site and I urge everyone (especially newbies) to check it out!

Thanks for this post, Kathymack. It's a topic that never gets old!
3a and strictly CG since August 2007. Porous and on the fine side. No to magnesium sulfate and glycerin. Yes to protein! Favorites:
CO-WASHES: Suave Coconut
CONDITIONERS and LEAVE-INS: Mop Top Daily Conditioner, KBB Nectar, Aubrey GPB or Island Naturals, Robert Craig, Any Jessicurl
CURL ENHANCERS/CREMES/MOUSSES: KCCC, JoiWhip
GELS: Fuzzy Duck, B5 Design, MGA Scultping, BRHG


Fotki password: chuckle
Blog: http://jillipoo.blogspot.com/
Twitter: nopoojillipoo
I do remember being a newbie and wondering if I might be protein sensitive, so it's definitely big on here - but at the same time, when I tried that blue Sally's version of a Paul Mitchell leave-in, there was no questioning what was up. The instant, almost splintery, dry hair when wet clued me in that it was time to give that conditioner away to a friend.

I do wonder if maybe I need a protein treatment right now because of all the evil sulfate attacks I've subjected my hair to lately without a suitably rich conditioner to follow. But then, when I grab a hair off the top of my head and feel it, it feels coarse and plenty able to hack it on its own. (This coarseness isn't true for the hair at the nape of my neck, but that's just how it goes.) Well, pickings are slim here, so I'd have to wait till Thanksgiving break to do it anyway.

Maybe when I get there, I can just slather my hair with the re:coil I'm planning on swapping.
OMG, LOOK!!

...It's a siggie.
I used to be able to use tons of protein products with no problem years ago and then suddenly became protein sensitive so I avoided protein like the plague for quite a while.
My curls started to become limp and lose definition.
After reading RCC's post about experimenting with protein a few months ago, I decided to add some protein to my routine. I tried the GVP treatment and it really made a big difference in my hair. My curls popped back and I got back my definition (thanks, RCC) But I still have to be careful about not going overboard or my hair starts to get dry and tangly. My hair only seems to be able to tolerate the occasional use of a conditioner with protein and I've only been brave enough to use ones with Keratin since I've had good results with it.

I have some of the Nexxus Emergencee but I'm not brave enough to experiment with that again yet. I used to be able to use it with no problems but the last time I used it a couple of years ago my hair turned into a dried out straw mess.
3b/c fine, thick, porous, protein sensitive
Modified CG, CJ Rehab, JCWDT, KCKT, VO5 Chamomile Tea Therapy, CJDF, HEBE Gel/Mousse, Bioinfusion Rosemary Mint shampoo, occasional protein

Experimenting with BRHG

"If you want the rainbow, you've gotta put up with the rain"
I wish I could figure out my hair's protein issues. I know it absolutely does not like wheat proteins at all but I haven't figured out if it's ok with the others. Last week I used the Donna Marie CCB and my hair immediately hated the wheat protein. Stupid me tried Nexxus Emergencee this weekend, plus I shampoo'd with Giovanni TTT which has soy protein in it. I think I've overdone the protein these two weeks because I'm still recovering. Now I just have to figure out when my hair is going to need protein and when it doesn't ARGGHH. I probably wouldn't be so irritated with myself but I had to put the DM L&T and Cocoa Hemp experimentation on hold until my hair recovers because the last few days have been a frizz ball.
mostly 3a/fine/high porosity/low density
Cleanse: Bosley shampoo and conditioner
Stylers: Boots Curl Cream, Uncle Funky's Daughter, Curl Keeper
Gels: Volumax, Biolage, EcoStyler, BRHG
Shea butter to scrunch out the crunch and seal
Modified CG since Feb 2008
Bless you, kathymack! I've been avoiding protein for the last couple of months, because my hair completely freaked out due to my protein conditioner. But, seeing your thread made me decide to be brave. My curls have been rather droopy lately, so I dug out my bottle of TIGI oatmeal and honey and used that after my co-wash. My curls have perked up considerably. I just need to figure out how often I can do this without my hair turning to straw. This conditioner seems loaded with protein. Thanks again.

ZigaZaga, I saw your thread. I just used a protein conditioner for a few minutes after my co-wash instead of doing a DT with it or anything. It worked. And, I used the same conditioner that made my hair freak out before.

Ahh, my daughter just came into the room and asked if I'd changed my part or something. Then she said oh it's just curlier. Gee, it must be noticably different/curlier.
Started CG July 8, 2008


3

Co-wash: Trader Joe's Tea Tree Tingle or Trader Joe's Nourish Spa
Rinse out: Ion Effective Care Treatment
Leave-in/Styling: Alba Botanica leave in with Kenra Moisturizing Conditioner on top

Last edited by curry curls; 11-14-2008 at 05:31 PM. Reason: more to add
Speckla
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Posts: n/a
Most protein (nearly all) doesn't really like my hair. Wheat protein - hydrolyzed or not (I was using a product occasionally with what I thought was wheat protein - checked the label today and it's not) does not like my hair. I tried a conditioner again today with wheat protein and my hair instantly felt dry and rough. My scalp is extremely itchy now. My hair wilts and gets crispy/brittle as soon as keratin touches it.

Soya is one protein that I can use in moderate amounts and not too often.

I wish I could use protein because some products I've had smelled really good and were cheap. My hair doesn't respond well no matter what condition it's in.

Moisture, moisture, moisture (aloe) for me.
Anyway, with regard to protein, she points out that fine-haired curlies are better off opting for protein-rich conditioners rather than emollient and humectant-based ones, and I found myself nodding in agreement because that's definitely been the experience on this particular head.
Originally Posted by jillipoo
Jillipoo - I'm glad you said this. While I wouldn't consider myself new to curly hair care, there are still some things I've been working out for myself. I'm finding what works for me is not the norm here on NC - mainly that I have to avoid moisture - but that I NEED protein. I've been using AO's GPB every few days and find that my hair is very happy.

This is a random question for anyone: I'm not allergic, but if you read the label, the AO GPB has oyster shell by-product in it. This really might be stupid, but does that mean those with shellfish allergies should take caution? Again, I'm sorry if this is stupid, but I was reminded of this random thought when AO GPB was mentioned...
3B-a / NYC / Playing since August 08 / DevaCut 09.06.08 / Growing out

My Routine Involves: Soaps/DW, ACV, Dr. Bronner's Shikakai Rinse, V05 Vanilla Mint Co, AOHR, AOWC, AOGPB, KBB Nectars, KBB SS, JWhip MOUSSE, HETT mousse, KCCC, BRHG, KBB LL, AK Oil, Plopping w/ T-shirts, Pixie curl diffusing

*denotes HG status*

"You see the saints? They all had curly hair!" - Great Grandma Filomena, who never wore hats - even in the dead of winter.
I am so glad you posted this. I have never avoided proteins and I don't think I have ever had any reason to suspect sensitivities. I have noticed since using more natural products the last week or so I have had some halo frizz and my curls are a little droopy. I did a dt with my homeade concoction and it helped a little bit but I bet I need some protein! I guess I will be picking up some Emergencee tomorrow, I have been eyeballing it for months anyways. Thanks KM!
http://public.fotki.com/BrewCrewGrl/

The bond with a true dog is as lasting as the ties of this earth can ever be- Konrad Lorenz
Anyway, with regard to protein, she points out that fine-haired curlies are better off opting for protein-rich conditioners rather than emollient and humectant-based ones, and I found myself nodding in agreement because that's definitely been the experience on this particular head.
Originally Posted by jillipoo
Jillipoo - I'm glad you said this. While I wouldn't consider myself new to curly hair care, there are still some things I've been working out for myself. I'm finding what works for me is not the norm here on NC - mainly that I have to avoid moisture - but that I NEED protein. I've been using AO's GPB every few days and find that my hair is very happy.

This is a random question for anyone: I'm not allergic, but if you read the label, the AO GPB has oyster shell by-product in it. This really might be stupid, but does that mean those with shellfish allergies should take caution? Again, I'm sorry if this is stupid, but I was reminded of this random thought when AO GPB was mentioned...
Originally Posted by MickeyB603
There are NO stupid questions here. I don't know the answer, but if I were allergic to shellfish, I'd want to find out for sure.
http://public.fotki.com/msgiblet/ - pw: gibber -- Pics Added 7/10/11
Fine, Thick, Normal Porosity, Normal Elasticity

Countess Balashi of Divi Beach in the Order of the Curly Crusaders

If I'm Going To Have A Bad Hair Day, It Might As Well Be In Aruba!

Protein confuses me a lot since I've only been curly for a few months and am taking in tons of great information from this forum.

Right now for me it seems to be about balance, like others were saying. I've been trying a low protein conditioner whenever my curls seem to be losing their curliness. Also noticing that my damaged ends (from everyday flat-ironing) react different than the first inch or so of healthy hair. The super damaged parts of my hair get super brittle while the healthy parts feel stronger, curlier, and just happier.

When I started out with CG, all my conditioners were loaded with protein. My hair loved it for a good while but it freaked out after a few months, even the healthy parts.

Is there a difference between being protein sensitive and just overloaded with protein? Or are those the same thing? Good thread! There's so much to learn from all of you!
Originally Posted by wildwoodflowr
Good question! I'd guess that both exist. If you can usually use protein, and it just builds up every so often, I'd guess it was just build-up, or a very mild sensitivity.

If mpost proteins dry the hair after one or two uses, I'm guessing hair sensitivity. I look at it a sort of a sensitivity sepctrum. Some can use it all the time, some can use it rarely or not at all, and most fit somewhere in the middle.
Kiva! Microfinance works.

Med/Coarse, porous curly.
This is a random question for anyone: I'm not allergic, but if you read the label, the AO GPB has oyster shell by-product in it. This really might be stupid, but does that mean those with shellfish allergies should take caution? Again, I'm sorry if this is stupid, but I was reminded of this random thought when AO GPB was mentioned...
I guess I would tell anyone with a shellfish allergy to be cautious. Here is my take on how shellfish allergies relate to me as a nurse. So iodine contrast is used in Cat scans. When people get CT's one of the questions is do you have a shellfish allergy? Because shellfish contain iodine, people with allergies to shellfish can have allergic reactions to CT contrast media because of the iodine. But some people while they cannot have injected iodine, they can use it on their skin topically such as betadine solution which also contains iodine.
Some people with shellfish allergies may be able to use the condish because it is not ingested only used topically. But I am not sure that I would be willing to risk the chance of a reaction, if I had an allergy to shellfish I would avoid this condish. I hope that made sense I am starting to get tired, lol.
http://public.fotki.com/BrewCrewGrl/

The bond with a true dog is as lasting as the ties of this earth can ever be- Konrad Lorenz
BrewCrewGrl - your answer made sense! I'm on my way to a girls night out, and two of my friends are nurses. I'm glad you provided this info because I am going to use it when I pose my original question to them. All my g/f's are aware of my "crazy hair routine" so they won't be the least bit surprised by such an inquiry! While I think your answer is quite adequate, I will let you know if they have anything extra to add.
3B-a / NYC / Playing since August 08 / DevaCut 09.06.08 / Growing out

My Routine Involves: Soaps/DW, ACV, Dr. Bronner's Shikakai Rinse, V05 Vanilla Mint Co, AOHR, AOWC, AOGPB, KBB Nectars, KBB SS, JWhip MOUSSE, HETT mousse, KCCC, BRHG, KBB LL, AK Oil, Plopping w/ T-shirts, Pixie curl diffusing

*denotes HG status*

"You see the saints? They all had curly hair!" - Great Grandma Filomena, who never wore hats - even in the dead of winter.

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