CURLS brand dismissive of a wavy customer

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"Posing as curly"? Wow, that's even worse. And I don't care if names were used or not, it's still public and it's still ridicule. What they should do is suck it up and apologize, because the clear intent was to make fun of the person--look at the big graphic that accompanies it. For cripe's sake, get a clue about how many people don't know they have curly hair and (try to) treat it like it's straight!
Firefox7275 likes this.
3a/b, F, normal porosity

Suave conditioner, LAL gel
I believe I was the first one who got banned. I simply tried to impress upon them that even though she may have thought the girl's hair was straight, it was highly likely that her "frizzy straight hair" was wavy hair that needed the proper care and technique. I said it was bad business to not educate yourself on the unique problems of wavies and the potential benefit of their products for this hair type.
I was told I had no idea what I was talking about.
However, I'm willing to bet, if I sent in pics of my hair fine tooth combed while wet, I would be told my hair was straight, and that their products wouldn't work for me.
As I am sure this is the way it is with a lot of wavies.
It is sometimes impossible to tell if someone is a wavy unless they scrunch when wet. That's all I'm saying. You can't make that assumption based on a picture alone.
My follow up questions to this customer would have been if her hair has wave when wet. Is it damaged in any way, etc.
That's a much better indicator of hidden wavy-ness than a picture.
Originally Posted by swtndspcy
I'm a 3a who can get her hair fairly straight (2a) with some effort, and the longer I treat it as straight, the more it looks straight or slightly wavy--with frizz, of course. Hell, I spent decades thinking my hair was only a little wavy because that's what everyone said it was. I just thought frizz was my curse to bear. If I treat my hair as curly, it's curly because I'm not doing the things that pull the curl out. When I did my hair typing over at LHC (clarify, air dry with no other products), I was actually floored because it was so much more curly than I expected--yeah, clueless me, lol. But when you go for years with stylists never saying a thing about you being curly, you make assumptions. A lot of people think "curly" means more like tighter curls, not loose curls or waves. And for other people, "kinky" means that frizz you get when you try to brush out curly hair--it's not exactly straight, not exactly curly, just kind of kinked up. It's a distorted pattern. I don't think Curls gets that not everyone knows the exact definition of wavy, curly, kinky. Even people who do know can't always categorize their hair. Ugh, it's maddening. Though I don't care for their products that much anyway, lol.
3a/b, F, normal porosity

Suave conditioner, LAL gel
I don't think they were meaning to offend wavies at all, but by ignorance inadvertently did. I don't think they considered that the person's hair was actually wavy.

They were thinking "kinky" as in type 4 hair (as it's commonly used in the US) and thought the woman was grossly exaggerating.

The term "textured" is known to mean highly textured as in not straight; wavy, curly, kinky, etc. The same way "colored" is known to mean not white.

Textured: Adj. 1.textured - having surface roughness ; "a textured wall of stucco"; "a rough-textured tweed"
coarse-textured, rough-textured
rough, unsmooth - having or caused by an irregular surface; "trees with rough bark"; "rough ground"; "rough skin"; "rough blankets"; "his unsmooth face"
Firefox7275 and gardencurls like this.
They should take it upon themselves to learn and see that the customer's hair is wavy. It would actually help them sell products!

I really don't believe they take any issue with wavy hair, as I said above it's just a lack of knowledge on the FB admin's part. I also don't think this ignorance is a reflection of the company as a whole, just whoever is in charge of the emails and FB page.

I'm tempted to either post or email them pictures of curly & wavy hair A. brushed out and B. styled correctly.

IDK, too much effort for people who are deleting comments now?

I'm kind of sad for the woman, I mean I guess she knows that her hair is not naturally straight if she wrote into Curls...But I hope that interaction didn't gaslight her and make her resort to straightening it. Hope she finds some good products or maybe even this site.

This isn't just a wavy thing, many people with curly and tightly curly hair didn't know they had curls - me included! I thought my hair was just an unmanageable poof growing up and I'm actually a solid 3c. No one ever told me it was curly or could be worn that way, not even the many stylists I visited as a kid.
Firefox7275 likes this.
This isn't just a wavy thing, many people with curly and tightly curly hair didn't know they had curls - me included! I thought my hair was just an unmanageable poof growing up and I'm actually a solid 3c. No one ever told me it was curly or could be worn that way, not even the many stylists I visited as a kid.
Originally Posted by SpiralSpunk
Exactly! I see women all the time who clearly have curly hair and just as clearly don't know it. There's lots of products for fighting frizz. There's not much there that says, "It's not frizz, it's curls!"
Firefox7275 and gardencurls like this.
3a/b, F, normal porosity

Suave conditioner, LAL gel
I'm quite sure the original intention wasn't to offend wavies. However, a number of wavies tried to explain that wavy hair is often mistaken for frizzy straight hair, and that this woman was possibly a wavy.
They refused to believe the potential customer could have been wavy, insisted she was straight with some bumps and frizz (um, that IS how wavy hair appears when not properly styled!).
Then started deleting and banning anyone who suggested this, or anyone who expressed being offended by the companies attitude towards the customer etc.
It was just very poorly handled.
Firefox7275 and Wavy7s like this.
http://www.facebook.com/sweetcurlselixirs
Wow , what a rude company!
Firefox7275 likes this.
2c/3a cg 01/10/13

Hair Properties: low( first 4 inches) / high porosity, medium density, fine/medium texture Climate : hot humid summer, coastal GA

Co-wash: Suave Naturals Coconut / Everlasting Sunshine, V05
Rinse out :Tresemme Naturals Nourishing Moisture, VO5 ocean refresh
LI: SMCHM ,SMCS, JCRR,
Gel: La Looks sport, Volumax mega gel,Biosilk Rock Hard gel my HG

Love ACV , pedaheh's gelatin treatment
My hair hates everything Deva curl and Curl Keeper,
Or at least a rude person posting for them.
Firefox7275 likes this.
2a medium porous, You can see my wavy tutorials here: https://www.youtube.com/playlist?lis...ZNxhBHSXAW40OQ and my wavy blog is The Wavy Nation http://wavynation.wordpress.com
And plenty of people supporting
their rude behavior
Firefox7275 likes this.
2c/3a cg 01/10/13

Hair Properties: low( first 4 inches) / high porosity, medium density, fine/medium texture Climate : hot humid summer, coastal GA

Co-wash: Suave Naturals Coconut / Everlasting Sunshine, V05
Rinse out :Tresemme Naturals Nourishing Moisture, VO5 ocean refresh
LI: SMCHM ,SMCS, JCRR,
Gel: La Looks sport, Volumax mega gel,Biosilk Rock Hard gel my HG

Love ACV , pedaheh's gelatin treatment
My hair hates everything Deva curl and Curl Keeper,
It's truly disgusting. I think I had 3 comments, all of which were deleted. And I was banned from interacting with the page (which I have since unliked).

I believe that I initially posted a link about Curly vs Kinky hair, and the science behind it all.

THE NATURAL HAVEN: Curly vs Kinky : What is the difference?

I would have thought that they'd realize that kinky hair isn't always curly and curly hair isn't always kinky.

This is what I wrote:

(thanks for the screenshot Chupie)

"Kinky hair and curly hair are not the same. Hair can be both kinky and curly, but one does not always include the other.

(Insert link here)

I have fine wavy hair, that has some individual kinky strands, if you look at straight texture on the strand, but my hair is definitely not curly. It's wavy, which is neither straight nor curly...it's in between.

(insert graphic thumbnail for the link listed above)"

After learning that swtnspcy got her posts deleted, and banned, I wrote the following comment.

"Why does it matter so much that she had straight hair or that she described it as extremely kinky? She clearly wanted to try something to help with frizz. Moisture often helps tame frizz, and your products aim to hydrate hair and minimize frizz. Yes, your company is called CURLS, but under the label, it is still a cleanser or a conditioner or a styling product.

My friend's daughter *loves* your products, and her hair is much straighter than mine. She swims a lot and she sometimes dyes her hair, so it gets frizzy and dry from that, and your products help her hair regain moisture and strength. They're a treat for her when her hair needs help. Should she stop buying them because her hair is straight? Are you so curl snobby clique-y as to want to cut off potential customers by saying your products don't work on their hair (which is totally a stupid thing to say)? Why not let them buy it and decide for themselves?

The bigger issue with this post is the attitude toward the customer, and the fact that these thoughts were aired publicly like this. It's highly unprofessional, and gives your company a bad image that you talk bad about customers/potential customers. It's also bad form to ban Alissa and delete her comments. I saw nothing overly rude. It shows how petty you really are. It's your page and you can do what you like, but this outward persona doesn't look so good from a customer service standpoint. Why you choose to stand and defend this post to the point of losing customers, is beyond me. It clearly hit a nerve with some people, so the gracious and courteous thing to do would be to say, "I'm sorry if this post was in poor taste or offended people" and then remove it and be done with it. "

This is the post that got deleted pretty immediately, but the one above, remained a bit longer. Interesting that no one had a single comment about that kinky vs curly article, which essentially proved that someone could have something other than curly hair and still have it considered kinky.

This last one is the one that got deleted pretty quickly, and banned. I was a little more vocal, however I was still expressing my opinion.

"I, for one, would like to see the picture of said straight hair. Wavy texture is pretty much everything between straight hair and curly hair. It can have vary loose and light waves to to deeper waves and some spirals. But again, the name CURLS on the bottle is just marketing. All the little subgroups like the ones for kids have identical ingredients listings, just different bottles. And cost less, and they work the same too. So underneath the label it is just shampoo and conditioner and some stylers marketed to ethnic hair. If you go into a LUSH store, they'll still sell you Curly Wurly even if your hair isn't curly, but because they think the ingredients might be beneficial. They've never said, I an't sell you this because you don't have curly hair. Banning multiple people and deleting posts is just bad business, in addition to talking bad about a potential customer. I'm done with this brand, and will help spread the word that CURLS brand is an elitist company so prejudice against anything but true curly hair (whatever that means) even if your website is more inclusive. Curl patterns can very, but hair properties are the biggest indicators on how to take care of it."

And sorry for any typos in the above comments. The last one was by phone because I was so outraged. Oh I am sure I definitely pushed buttons with this last one, but really, I don't care. Of course, after that comment, I was banned.

I am sending my 3 nearly full bottles back to them with a note that I don't have true curly hair, and that must mean that I am not allowed to use the products. I may very well take some pictures and include them too.


Lady Caiside, Noble Lushetarian and Wavy Wayfarer of Mugglswick, in the Order of the Curly Crusaders

2b-3a Fii, porous and low elasticity

Currently using a variety of products, and looking for that magic combo

Hair bio: http://www.naturallycurly.com/curlta...5&postcount=59



kink·y (kngk)
adj. kink·i·er, kink·i·est
1. Tightly twisted or curled: kinky hair.
2. Slang Showing or appealing to bizarre or deviant tastes, especially of a sexual or erotic nature: "his appetite for kinky filmmaking, unmitigated by any artistry" (John Simon).
kinki·ly adv.
kinki·ness n.
The American Heritage® Dictionary of the English Language, Fourth Edition copyright ©2000 by Houghton Mifflin Company. Updated in 2009. Published by Houghton Mifflin Company. All rights reserved.
kinky [ˈkɪŋkɪ]
adj kinkier, kinkiest
1. Slang given to unusual, abnormal, or deviant sexual practices
2. Informal exhibiting unusual idiosyncrasies of personality; quirky; eccentric
3. Informal attractive or provocative in a bizarre way kinky clothes
4. tangled or tightly looped, as a wire or rope
5. tightly curled, as hair


**********
I got this from an on line dictionary and what it says has always been my definition of kinky hair which is tightly curled. I assume the company thinks the same. While I don't consider wavy hair to be kinky hair I think reposting and making fun of the inquiry was immature and unprofessional. Actually I don't why understand the kinkiness or non kinkiness of her hair matters to them so much.
Yes, it's real. No, you can't touch it.

Last edited by adthomas; 09-07-2013 at 12:52 AM.
Well, my comment has been deleted... Apparently they feel free to publicly shame anything but the curliest of curlies. I simply posted "Congratulations, you have just lost one wavy customer. Well done!" And they felt the need to delete it. I guess it's ok for the company to post rude comments about potential customers, but not ok when a current customer politely expressed her disappointment in the way the company responded.
I am further disturbed to see a quite impenitent post about "textured" hair today. I guess they either have not learned or don't care.
Originally Posted by Wavy7s
Curls is not marketed to the curliest of the curlies. Type 4s found that out when they bought out Kynx.

From an April 5th press release. Dellinger announced her acquisition, during the festivities, of KYNX Hair Care statin ;Im excited to announce that we have officially acquired the company KYNX and are looking forward to expanding our offering to include TYPE 4 Textured hair under this new division of CURLS. We see great potential in this brand and over the next few months will be looking closely at how we might better align what they have with what we currently offer. We believe this will be a perfect addition to our current product lines.
Yes, it's real. No, you can't touch it.
I can't believe this. If I brush my hair out when wet, roughly towel dry, and let it air dry, it will come out as basically straight. And ugly, frizzy straight with a weird bend in the back. Does that mean that I can't use their products?? (Btw when styled properly I'm a 2a/2b)
I feel bad for the person who emailed in. This will mean she doesn't think to try styling it wavy/curly, doesn't keep researching curly hair any more. She will probably never discover the curly girl method, which would make her hair less frizzy, even if it is straight (which is unlikely). She won't discover Pixiecurl diffusing, which would help increase the curl in her hair. After being told by a leading hair product company that her hair isn't curly, wavy, kinky or anything, she will feel like her hair doesn't belong anywhere. She will just straighten her hair forever more :/
The thing I don't understand is why they didn't tell her to buy their products, for the moisturising properties. What company ever turns down a customer? Have you ever been to a Chinese restaurant and not been allowed to buy a meal because you're not Chinese? .-.
Also, it must have been really embarrassing for her, being shamed on a company Facebook page.
I hope Curls realise how many customers, and potential customers they have lost from doing this.
Firefox7275 likes this.
It boggles my mind that any company would allow someone to represent them in such a poor manner. The whole situation was very off-putting.
Firefox7275 likes this.

3a/f/iii
Modified CG since 11/5/11
CLEANSE: CJ Daily Fix, DevaCare No-Poo, CHS Treatment Shampoo
RO: SS Caitlin's Conditioner, CJ Beauticurls Strengthening
LI: SS Repairing Protein Treatment, CHS Silk Leave-In
STYLE: Re:Coil, Curl Keeper, Deva Ultra Defining Gel, Curls Rock Amplifier,Sweet Curls Elixirs Okra Gel and Hard Hold Gel, SS Curl Enhancing Jelly and Firm Hold Gel
CURLS didn't quit
"ATTENTION: For those that took offense to the post about people posing as curly, and calling their "frizzy hair curly" PLEASE lighten up! The person that emailed was NOT publicly OR privately embarrassed, she was graciously assisted, and was happy with our HONEST feedback and product assistance. If this kind of open banter is NOT up your alley, this is what we do on this page, feel free to dislike the page now."

Apparently the e-mailer 'posed' as curly by using the word 'kinky' - never mind that it was explained by at least three different people that the word 'kinky' means different things to different countries/ cultures/ ethnic groups. But it's OK because the banter is 'open' to anyone that is not blocked and deleted.

And later CURLS posted a silhouette of an afro with the quote
"Remove the kinks from your mind not your hair
- Marcus Garvey
"
2a-2c, medium texture, porous/ colour treated. Three years CG. Past bra strap length heading for waist.

CO-wash: Inecto coconut/ Elvive Volume Collagen
Treatments: Komaza Care Matani, coconut/ sweet almond/ fractionated coconut oils, Hairveda Sitrinillah
Leave in: Fructis Sleek & Shine (old), Gliss Ultimate Volume, various Elvive
Styler: Umberto Giannini jelly, Au Naturale styling gelee
Flour sack towel, pixie diffuse or air dry.
Experimenting with: benign neglect
Their original post had all the charm of a schoolyard shaming.
It was like

Hey, guys! Get a load of this!
She thinks her hair is kinky, hahahaha
Well, we are she kinky experts and everyone else is a poser!
Nyah Nyah!

I can't wait to return my products.
Btw, the products are okay but not great anyway.

But the attitude of elitism, misplaced as it is, is very demeaning to swavies, wavies, and worlies.
So they can keep their products.

Unlikely they will keep their market share.
Not if we can help it!

Last edited by Pookarina; 09-07-2013 at 09:24 AM. Reason: Grammar
An excellent blog post including some of the censored comments. Open banter?
Pedaheh's Hair Blog: Why You May Not Want to Buy CURLS Products if You Are a Wavy (or another hair texture for that matter) and Why You Certainly Don't Want to E-mail CURLS

I have three of their products but won't be repurchasing nor wasting any further time reviewing them.
Pookarina likes this.
2a-2c, medium texture, porous/ colour treated. Three years CG. Past bra strap length heading for waist.

CO-wash: Inecto coconut/ Elvive Volume Collagen
Treatments: Komaza Care Matani, coconut/ sweet almond/ fractionated coconut oils, Hairveda Sitrinillah
Leave in: Fructis Sleek & Shine (old), Gliss Ultimate Volume, various Elvive
Styler: Umberto Giannini jelly, Au Naturale styling gelee
Flour sack towel, pixie diffuse or air dry.
Experimenting with: benign neglect

Last edited by Firefox7275; 09-07-2013 at 09:40 AM.
Ironically, I saw someone comment on another forum the very thing I was thinking to myself this morning as I was reaching for my DevaCare No-Poo. Love or hate the Deva line, you have to at least give Lorraine Massey credit for recognizing that straight frizzy hair is often wavy hair in need of some TLC. The same is true for Ouidad. I cannot imagine the FB pages of either of these companies blatantly dismissing such a potential customer, let alone then making a joke at their expense for the world to see. Proud to support companies like Deva and Ouidad.

3a/f/iii
Modified CG since 11/5/11
CLEANSE: CJ Daily Fix, DevaCare No-Poo, CHS Treatment Shampoo
RO: SS Caitlin's Conditioner, CJ Beauticurls Strengthening
LI: SS Repairing Protein Treatment, CHS Silk Leave-In
STYLE: Re:Coil, Curl Keeper, Deva Ultra Defining Gel, Curls Rock Amplifier,Sweet Curls Elixirs Okra Gel and Hard Hold Gel, SS Curl Enhancing Jelly and Firm Hold Gel
And now they rewrite history

"MESSAGE FROM MAHISHA DELLINGER, CURLS FOUNDER:

<snip>

A FEW THINGS....

1. No where did we reference race (African American, Caucasian, Latina, or Asian). We speak in the terms of texture, not race.
2. The person's hair is straight (no waves, curls, or kinks) with frizz and damage to her cuticle from bleaching and heat styling.
3. The person is NOT on Facebook. The person's name and picture was not and will NOT be posted/shared.
4. The person referenced asked for product advise, for her hair, and received a few product recommendations, that would truly benefit her. She was appreciative that she received honest help vs. selling her on a line that wasn't created for her.
5. CURLS caters to all textured hair....from the loosest wave to the kinkiest kink and everything in between. While some products (e.g. our cleansers and conditioners) can be used by anyone...we don't cater to this market.
6. CURLS does not discriminate based on color of one's skin or texture of hair.
7. Our Facebook page is here to help those with (or caring for) wavy, curly, and kinky hair. CURLS is a resource in time of need. Our Facebook page is a place to congregate, engage, and chat about all things hair and lifestyle.
8. We aren't a resource for straight hair, it isn't our speciality. Our straight hair counterparts have the entire hair care section, while us textured tresses have a fraction of it. We cater to an overlooked audience.
9. We will remove anyone that is rude, uses harsh language, or insults my staff, my brand, or myself. NO questions asked.
10. This page is owned by CURLS....our opinions are ours. While we will never intentionally insult anyone, if the page doesn't fancy you...unlike the page, and please move on so the rest of us can enjoy.
11. At no time did we insult anyone (or any texture)...not even the rude posters. We expect the same in return.
11. Lastly....the person that emailed was a Personal Trainer i was referred to. During our conversation she found out what i do, and said she, too, had kinky, curly hair. She emailed the picture before our first meeting. I let her know that her hair was simply damaged from bleaching and wasn't kinky in texture. It was frizzy and damaged and needed a lil TLC and no more bleaching. I showed her a picture of truly kinky hair, we shared a laugh and I advised her on how she could get her silky straight tresses back. We moved on to getting me in the best shape as possible!
"


Wavies ARE insulted, a good few curlies called them out on the inappropriateness too. It IS rude to ridicule at a potential customer, call their hair limp and say they are 'posing' as curly.
Korkscrew and Pookarina like this.
2a-2c, medium texture, porous/ colour treated. Three years CG. Past bra strap length heading for waist.

CO-wash: Inecto coconut/ Elvive Volume Collagen
Treatments: Komaza Care Matani, coconut/ sweet almond/ fractionated coconut oils, Hairveda Sitrinillah
Leave in: Fructis Sleek & Shine (old), Gliss Ultimate Volume, various Elvive
Styler: Umberto Giannini jelly, Au Naturale styling gelee
Flour sack towel, pixie diffuse or air dry.
Experimenting with: benign neglect

Last edited by Firefox7275; 09-07-2013 at 10:10 AM.
Join Date: May 2012
Posts: 939
It was really stupid to post that on facebook, but I do understand what she's saying. She should have kept that little remark between her and her co workers, customer service 101.

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