-   Low Porosity(
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laurainthesky 04-17-2012 05:06 PM

very dry hair
I had always assumed that my hair was dry and damaged, so I always bought the dry and damaged hair products.

I tried the float test and the hair sat on top of the water for days until I finally poured it out. I even squished the hair down to the bottom of the jar and it made its way back to the surface.

a few things began to make sense: why my hair is dry no matter how much I condition it. Why styling gels and too much leave in make my hair stick together (not in the good way) and get more dry and tangly. why my hair (even though fine and not high density) was always nearly impossible to straighten. I had a stylist nearly give up on me. I tried to flat iron a few times unsuccessfully after over an hour! and that was the beginning and end of my hair straightening adventures. My hair was much more curly and difficult to manage when I was younger. My mom took me to a salon and they put a chemical relaxer leave in treatment. It did absolutely zero, as if the event never happened. I figured that straight hair was just not meant to be and that was my first and last attempt at relaxing.

ok. here is the question!!!! No matter what I do, my hair does the squeaky clean squeak when I move my finger up the strand. Hot showers do not help. Any type of rinse in conditioner does nothing, even if i leave it in for a few minutes. leave in only for me.

Oh and I have been doing CG for two weeks now and have noticed softer, bouncier, more defined (albiet still dry) hair.
Today I did my first low-poo wash and no cone rinse out conditioner and I am unhappy with it. way too dry. It was better when I co-washed with the suave coconut, skipped the rinse out conditioner, and put volumizer (no cones) leave in.

advice for very dry hair????

(some info... fine hair.. low density.. good elasticity.. I live in a very dry climate 10% humidity today)

thank you =)

Geek_Chic 04-17-2012 06:38 PM

Hi Laura. When you started CG, did you do a final sulfate wash with a shampoo that did not contain cones? If not, you probably still have silicones on your hair that are blocking it from properly absorbing the moisture you're trying to give it. What products are you using? We may be able to pinpoint something your hair isn't liking, or even suggest some that might work better for you. However, if your low poo has Cocamidopropyl Betaine or Cocobetaine, then it should have removed any lingering silicones.

Speaking of low poos, some can be as drying as sulfate poos (or more, in some instances). It depends on the formula. If you're having better luck with cowashing, I'd stick to that for cleansing. If your scalp starts feeling "gunky" or your hair starts looking overly greasy, then you could low poo to cleanse before returning to your normal cowashing routine.

I've found a leave in conditioner is essential for good moisturization on my hair. I can sometimes skip a rinse out conditioner without issue. I have yet to buy a dedicated leave in conditioner. Instead, I add a bit of my rinse out conditioner back into my hair as a leave in. Some choose to not fully rinse after they apply their rinse out conditioner, but I feel I have better control of the amount if I fully rinse after I apply my RO, then add however much I need back into my hair for my LI.

You will probably want to try deep moisture treatments, at least once a week till your hair is feeling better moisturized. Slather the dt on your hair, add a plastic processing cap (or even a clean plastic grocery sack with an elastic band to secure it), maybe also add a warm towel over top. Then go do something else while your dt works. Some have good luck using heating pads or blow dryers to help warm up their dt for better absorption. You might also try an overnight dt, which would give your hair more time to soak up the moisture.

laurainthesky 04-17-2012 07:35 PM

thank you geek chic!

here is the info:

I washed my hair and scalp very carefully in no silicone sulfate aplenty safeway brand dandruff shampoo (seems like my dandruff problem is going away with CG!).

I tried CG years ago and failed. My hair felt greasy and nasty and my scalp was itchy. Looking back, I was using an amo…cone thinking it was a water soluble silicone and also not scrubbing well enough with co-wash.

Leave in:
(so far, this product is a keeper. my hair is lighter and bouncier than it has been in a long while).. but still dry =(

Headress Thickening Leave-In Volumizer, with exclusive time-released technology, helps build thicker, fuller hair.
Water (Aqua, Eau), Panthenol, Cetyl Alcohol, Stearyl Alcohol, Glycerin, Cetrimonium Bromide, Stearalkonium Chloride, PEG-75 Lanolin, Fragrance (Parfum), DMDM Hydantoin, Alcohol Denat., Disodium EDTA, Limonene, Linalool, Amyl Cinnamal, Butylphenyl Methylpropional, Citronellol, Hexyl Cinnamal, Propylene Glycol, Phytantriol, Polyglyceryl-3 Distearate, Polysorbate 60, Linum Usitatissimum (Linseed) Seed Extract, Stearic Acid, Panax Ginseng Root Extract, Palmitic Acid, Myristic Acid, Guar Hydroxypropyltrimonium Chloride, Verbena Officinalis Leaf Extract, Triticum Vulgare (Wheat) Flour Lipids, Persea Gratissima (Avocado) Oil, Tetrahexyldecyl Ascorbate, Glycine Soja (Soybean) Sterols, Alpha-Glucan Oligosaccharide, Ceramide 3, Ethylhexyl Methoxycinnamate, Butyl Methoxydibenzoylmethane, Tocopheryl Acetate

the co-wash
the Suave coconut. I was very careful to scrub my scalp well. A week and in half into co-washing, my scalp began to feel a bit greasy..

so I thought to try a sulfate free -poo.
I found this disappointing and very drying (more so than the sulfate dandruff shampoo I was using before!). The squeaky clean squeak I was not wanting.

Nature’s gate shampoo:
Our Herbal Shampoo gently cleanses hair with the perfect blend of herbs and botanicals. Sage, Lavender, Rosemary and Thyme purify and revitalize hair while Chamomile and Yarrow soothe and tone. With the nourishing benefits of our 7 Healthy Hair Nutrients, this shampoo is ideal for everyday use on all hair types, leaving hair soft and manageable.

Exclusive healthy hair blend includes Panthenol, Soy Proteins, Vegetable Proteins, Jojoba Oil, Borage Flower Seed Oil, Vitamin C and Vitamin E.

- Panthenol (Vitamin B5) and Soy Proteins strengthen hair while adding shine

- Vegetable Proteins condition and moisturize, helping to reduce the appearance of split ends

- Borage Flower Seed Oil, rich in essential fatty acids, promotes a healthy scalp

- Vitamin C and Vitamin E work synergistically to provide antioxidant benefits
All Ingredients

Water, Cocamidopropyl Hydroxysultaine (Coconut Derived), Sodium Cocoyl Isethionate (Coconut Derived), Disodium Cocoamphodiacetate (Coconut Derived), Lauryl Glucoside (Vegetable Derived), Glycerin (Vegetable Derived), Panthenol, Hydrolyzed Soy Protein, Hydrolyzed Vegetable Protein, Simmondsia Chinensis (Jojoba) Seed Oil, Borago Officinalis (Borage) Seed Oil, Tocopherol (Vitamin E), Ascorbic Acid (Vitamin C), Achillea Millefolium (Yarrow) Extract, Chamomilla Recutita (Matricaria) Flower Extract, Lavandula Angustifolia (Lavender) Flower Extract, Rosmarinus Officinalis (Rosemary) Leaf Extract, Salvia Officinalis (Sage) Leaf Extract, Urtica Dioica (Nettle) Extract, Prunus Serotina (Wild Cherry) Bark Extract, Thymus Vulgaris (Thyme) Leaf Extract, Ascorbyl Palmitate (Vitamin C), Guar Hydroxypropyltrimonium Chloride (Plant Derived), Leuconostoc/Radish Root Ferment Filtrate, Polysorbate 20 (Vegetable Derived), Hydroxypropyl Methylcellulose (Plant Derived), Sodium Hydroxide, Glyceryl Undecylenate (Vegetable Derived), Phenoxyethanol, Citric Acid (Vegetable Derived), Fragrance*.
*Phthalate free

also got a rinse out conditioner to help with detangling and increase moisture. this one was disappointing as might as well have been nice smelling water.. my hair was still squeaky clean.

nature’s gate rinse out conditioner:

Our Herbal Conditioner effectively conditions hair while helping to enhance texture, shine and radiance. A unique blend of herbs and botanicals including soothing Chamomile and Lavender is combined with our 7 Healthy Hair Nutrients to nourish, fortify and revive hair. This is the perfect conditioner for everyday use, leaving hair manageable, soft, silky and smooth.

Exclusive healthy hair blend includes Panthenol, Soy Proteins, Vegetable Proteins, Jojoba Oil, Borage Flower Seed Oil, Vitamin C and Vitamin E.

- Chamomile and Lavender soothe and balance

- Vegetable Proteins condition and moisturize, helping to reduce the appearance of split ends

- Panthenol (Vitamin B5) and Soy Proteins strengthen hair while adding shine

- Borage Flower Seed Oil, rich in essential fatty acids, promotes a healthy scalp
All Ingredients

Water, Quaternium-87 (Vegetable Derived), Cetearyl Alcohol (Vegetable Derived), Glycerin (Vegetable Derived), Polysorbate 60, Panthenol, Hydrolyzed Soy Protein, Hydrolyzed Vegetable Protein, Simmondsia Chinensis (Jojoba) Seed Oil, Borago (Borage) Officinalis Seed Oil, Tocopherol (Vitamin E), Ascorbic Acid (Vitamin C), Chamomilla Recutita (Matricaria) Extract, Urtica Dioica (Nettle) Extract, Prunus Serotina (Wild Cherry) Bark Extract, Lavandula Angustifolia (Lavender) Extract, Arctium Lappa (Burdock) Root Extract, Yucca Schidigera Root Extract, Lilium Candidum (Lily) Bulb Extract, Nelumbo Nucifera (Sacred Lotus) Flower Extract, Quercus Alba (Oak Bark) Bark Extract, Ascorbyl Palmitate, Phenoxyethanol, Glyceryl Undecylenate (Vegetable Derived), Citric Acid (Vegetable Derived), Fragrance*, Caramel.

* Phthalate free

kathymack 04-18-2012 05:44 AM

My hair is fine/low porosity, too. It could be that the products you're using aren't moisturizing enough for your hair. The leave in has denatured alcohol in it. I didn't find the Nature's Gate to do too much for me.

I use minute amounts of really rich products as one of my first two layers in styling. I find that it seals the moisture in. It sometimes takes my hair hours to absorb the products once my hair is dry. Because of this, I never have to DT despite using a lot of protein. My current favorites are in my signature.

teejay 04-18-2012 09:13 AM

I noticed that some of the products you use contains glycerin. Glycerin pulls the moisture from the air. You mentioned living in a dry climate. This may be the problem.

I am a glycerin user in the Spring and summer because I live in an area where the dew points are great for glycerin during those times of the year.

Also, use warm water when co-washing and rinsing your hair. This helps to open the hair cuticles and allow moisture to get in. If you DC, use a plastic conditioning cap for a few minutes to open the cuticles and allow some moisture to enter.


Geek_Chic 04-18-2012 12:54 PM

What Kathymack said about the denatured alcohol in your leave in. It's a very drying alcohol, unlike fatty alcohols (Cetyl, Stearyl, Cetearyl) which act as conditioning agents.

What Teejay said about glycerin, at least in your leave in. It's a humectant that pulls moisture from whatever is most moist and into whatever is driest. In dry air like your area has, that means glycerin is pulling moisture from your hair in an attempt to hydrate the air. In the very moist air in your shower, glycerin in your low poo and rinse out conditioner is pulling moisture from the air and into your hair (a good thing). This winter I used a rinse out with fairly high glycerin levels (6th ingredient) without any issues in dewpoints as low as 11 (fairly dry air). Keep an eye on how your hair does with it, but it may well not cause you issues in low poos and rinse out conditioners.

Your fine hair will want some protein for increased strength, but because it's low porosity it also needs lots of moisture. The low poo and rinse out conditioner you're using both have fairly high amounts of protein, and you might perhaps do better with more moisturizing products.

laurainthesky 04-18-2012 08:32 PM

You have all been really helpful =)

second day hair: shiny and not dry anymore.. although flat curls because I sleep in braids and probably touched it too much today.
perhaps, my hair takes awhile to absorb things too.

I did not know about that property of glycerin! I live in the desert, so humidity is only a few months event!

1. What would you guys consider a more moisturizing product with still a good amount of protein?
2. would deep protein treatment be useful?

sad about my leave-in. it makes my hair so light and bouncy.. but the dry is not fun.

I am going to see if I can go without low-poo entirely and wash co-washing and just scrubbing well.

I'm learning a lot here =). Even my boyfriend commented on how nice, soft, and bouncy my hair has been.

kathymack 04-19-2012 06:10 AM

The best thing you can do now is look for folks with hair like yours and see what they use (in signatures.) It's the best place to start.

laurainthesky 04-26-2012 10:27 AM

The signatures are sometimes difficult to understand with all the abbreviations!
Any suggestion of more moisturizing ingredients to look for?

You are were right about the glycerin! Major heat and dry wave over here and my hair got even more dry! =(

Chikyuu 04-26-2012 10:36 AM


Originally Posted by teejay (Post 1935890)
I noticed that some of the products you use contains glycerin. Glycerin pulls the moisture from the air. You mentioned living in a dry climate. This may be the problem.

Glycerin is drying for hair if you live in a dry environment?! I've been using LALSG and I live in the Las Vegas area!

AAGGHH -headdesk-

laurainthesky 04-26-2012 10:59 AM

Southern AZ here! Can't believe that we already hit the three digits >_<. My hair was extremely angry.. according to above posters, glycerin may have been part of the problem. Although, 100 in April is definitely a bigger problem >_<

laurainthesky 04-26-2012 11:27 AM

did a little research and answered my own question! So apparently, I need to avoid humectants.
I think I need to also avoid protein. When I used the above protein rich shampoo and conditioners, I felt an instant dry.. a dry which I have never felt even with the most sulfate rich shampoos.
I have very fine hair so this is surprising to me. However, may the low porosity is the cause? or that protein may be drying?

here are the links I found:
What are Humectants?
Humidity, Humectants and Hair

Corrina777 04-26-2012 11:41 AM

Have you tried making sure to follow protein with moisture? My hair loves protein but the ends tend to get dry so I always add lots of moisture. PT is always followed by DT. If I use a protein-heavy RO I mix it with a moisture-rich conditioner. Leave-in underneath pretty much everything.

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jsuzkelley 04-26-2012 12:12 PM

Hi! I'm a fine haired curly from CO and have the same issues with dryness in general, and protein and glycerin specifically. I'm still working on what products work best, but thought I'd share what I've learned so far.

I've discovered that some glycerin is okay in my wash/RO, but not so good on anything I leave in my hair (unless its way down the ingredient list) I've also discovered that same principle with protein - a little is okay in my wash/RO, but not in LI or styling product. I also just recently learned that certain natural ingredients are protein rich, like coconut oil, so you may need to consider that when you look at ingredients.

So far, my favorite products are CJ Daily Fix for cleansing, and Tresemme Naturals Nourishing Moisture for my RO. I've heard good things about Aubrey Organics Honeysuckle and Rose condish, but have not tried. For LI I've been trying Oyin Handmade Hair Dew - this is protein and glycerin free and seems to be super moisturizing for my hair. I also really like the Spiral Solutions Curl Enhancing Jelly as a styler/frizz reducer (also protein and glycerin free) but it doesn't have a lot of hold, so you may want to try a gel over top. ( I've heard good things about their Firm Hold Gel, but haven't tried it). I had some decent results with Curl Keeper, but it does contain glycerin - I used it over the Hair Dew and only used a little, so maybe that's why it wasn't too bad.

One suggestion someone gave me was to try sealing with an oil before styling - I just picked up some EO Conditioning Serum from Vitamin Cottage (its a mixture of oils) and am going to give that a try - maybe like I would have with a silicone frizz/shine serum before going CG. I also highly recommend the weekly DT - I just add some EVOO and honey to my Tresemme Naturals condish and let that sit under a shower cap for about an hour - makes my hair feel like silk!


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laurainthesky 04-26-2012 12:38 PM

thank you guys!

I had no idea that I was supposed to follow up protein with protein-free moisture!

the sealant oil sounds like a good idea for me. maybe the next step after I figure out a leave in.

to begin, I would like to start out simple. I don't really like styling hold products. I hate the feeling of hard hair.
I would like to just co-wash and leave-in. possible to have just a two product regimen? wishful thinking? lol. When my hair is wet, I do not have a tangle issue and the co-wash is enough to detangle.

The Oyin Handmade Hair Dew sounds like a good product. I noticed a lot of oil. Should I worry about a grease problem? My hair is easily weighed down as it is not dense.

jsuzkelley 04-26-2012 12:56 PM

Oops, I lied before. The Spiral Solutions CEJ does have protein - silk amino acids. This is one protein my hair seems to be okay with, so I forgot about it. Sorry!

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jsuzkelley 04-26-2012 01:02 PM

The Oyin Handmade Hair Dew sounds like a good product. I noticed a lot of oil. Should I worry about a grease problem? My hair is easily weighed down as it is not dense.[/QUOTE]

I find the hair dew very moisturizing. I have pretty dense hair and I only use about a penny sized amount, so you may find it too heavy. I've heard good things about Giovanni Direct Leave-in; seems to be a fav of fine haired curlies and is glycerin free. It does contain protein, but it is organic (I think the protein comes from soybeans) so it may work for you.

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laurainthesky 04-26-2012 11:04 PM

1 Attachment(s)
The Giovanni price tag makes it win lol.
but with all my new humectant education, I can probably just go to a store and label read.
I picked up some tresemme naturals conditioner. Has some oils and no strong humectant or protein.

This moisture balance thing is really confusing!!!

I had to wash my hair today and realized that I have no silicone free conditioner/leave in without strong humectant properties except for the suave co-wash...

so... yes i did.
I co-washed and scrubbed, then I detangled and rinsed it out.... then.... I used it as leave in.... :laughing6:

and my hair is well... interesting.. it feels foreign. I am used to dry hair.. now it feels.. well.. it is not greasy, but feels just a tiny bit damp. so the hair no longer squeaks on the porosity test. now it is slick. And it took hours for my hair to dry!!! I guess I am used to accidentally inappropriately using humectants which use the desert dry air to air dry my hair?

I did this to my hair about two weeks ago, when I used a plastic bag to imitate an overnight deep treatment (with regular leave-in). the same foreign feeling.

The elusive balance is going to be a challenge!!!!
here is the pic of my suave co-wash solo product adventure:

jsuzkelley 04-27-2012 11:52 AM

I noticed from your earlier post that you have been CG for about 2 weeks; some of the "foreign" feeling you're describing could just be your hair still adjusting to the no sulfate, no silicone routine. It took my hair about 4 weeks to adjust and not feel weird. One other thing I've learned about my own hair, is that to keep the top part from getting flat, I have to have layers to give the volume and shape I want - just something else to consider if you struggle with that like I do. I would suggest that you keep experimenting with some of the ideas mentioned above, and don't give up - I'm beginning to realize this is a journey, with some bumps in the road, but the end result will be worth it!

BTW, you have beautiful curls :)

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jsuzkelley 04-27-2012 12:15 PM

I forgot to mention before, but you might also like Kinky Curly Knot Today as a leave in. It is also organic, and I believe glycerin and protein free (not 100% certain, so you should check the label). And you can get it on the ground at Target. It was not quite moisturizing enough for me, but if your hair gets weighed down easily, it may work for you. I haven't tried the KCCC but lots of people like that with the KCKT for styling - something else to try :)

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