View Poll Results: The Death Penalty and Abortion
I'm anti-abortion and anti-death penalty 8 11.43%
I'm anti-abortion and pro-death penalty 4 5.71%
I'm pro-choice and anti-death penalty 32 45.71%
I'm pro-choice and pro-death penalty 26 37.14%
Voters: 70. You may not vote on this poll

Death

I do not think that laws should be implemented to take away a woman's right to choose
Originally Posted by cehua
Anything taking away anybody's right to choose anything (in this country) is against what is what founded on.
Originally Posted by GuardianB
I agree, but it is headed that way.....
Originally Posted by cehua
I agree. There's a slippery slope and we're headed straight for it.
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I actually wrote a paper on this subject once. The two issues do not align like you (general "you") think they might at all. It was an interesting paper to research.
Originally Posted by Who Me?
just curious, how do the issues actually align?
Originally Posted by Ambrosia
As soon as I posted I was thinking that I really shouldn't have said that since I can't remember the details of the paper! It was a few years ago. The basis was that one would expect that people are either pro-death or pro-life, as in support the death penalty and abortion, or are against the death penalty and abortion. This was not the case. I think the majority of people who are pro-choice are against the death penalty. I wish I could remember all the reasons--they weren't situated on moral beliefs nearly as much as other factors. I'll see if I can find the paper when I get home. I definitely think it was the most interesting paper I've ever written.
Originally Posted by Who Me?
just my non-researched opinion, but i would expect the results to come out as you said they did. i always thought the issue to be less of a stance on whether to implement death (or not), and more of a stance on the role of the law. for example, social liberals, may advocate less intervention of the the law: the law cannot/should not make a decision on life/death, hence pro-choice and against death penalty. on the other hand, social conservatives would advocate the law to intervene when it seems necessary, hence pro-life and for death penalty.

...less to do with a stance on death and more to do with a stance on the role of the law.

im sure there are moral components too, but youre right, they way the tendencies fall, they dont seem to align so obviously on a moral plane.

...interesting paper topic.
I always thought the issue to be less of a stance on whether to implement death (or not), and more of a stance on the role of the law.
I am sure there are moral components too, but youre right, they way the tendencies fall, they dont seem to align so obviously on a moral plane.
Originally Posted by Ambrosia
I agree
I always thought the issue to be less of a stance on whether to implement death (or not), and more of a stance on the role of the law.
I am sure there are moral components too, but youre right, they way the tendencies fall, they dont seem to align so obviously on a moral plane.
Originally Posted by Ambrosia
I agree
Originally Posted by cehua
I like the way you explained that, Ambrosia, that was definitely a major point in my paper. The class was called "Sociology of Bioethics", so we had approached it from an ethical, rather than legal, standpoint, and hence the class generally thinking that those people against the death penalty would also be against abortion.
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Is that kinda like "I brought you in this world, I'll take you out"
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I do not think that laws should be implemented to take away a woman's right to choose
Originally Posted by cehua
Anything taking away anybody's right to choose anything (in this country) is against what is what founded on.
Originally Posted by GuardianB
I agree, but it is headed that way.....
Originally Posted by cehua
I agree. There's a slippery slope and we're headed straight for it.
Originally Posted by PartyHair
I really don't think we're headed that way. A lot of Bush fans might support that and there's been talk about overturning Roe v. Wade, but the likelehood of that happening IMO is really slim. And then considering the mentality of the younger generation regarding these issues, actually expect the opposite.
“It was only a sunny smile and little it cost in the giving but like morning light it scattered the night and made the day worth living.” - F. Scott Fitzgerald

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I do not think that laws should be implemented to take away a woman's right to choose
Originally Posted by cehua
Anything taking away anybody's right to choose anything (in this country) is against what is what founded on.
Originally Posted by GuardianB
I agree, but it is headed that way.....
Originally Posted by cehua
I agree. There's a slippery slope and we're headed straight for it.
Originally Posted by PartyHair
I really don't think we're headed that way. A lot of Bush fans might suupport that and there's been talk about overturning Roe v. Wade, but the liklehood of that happening IMO is really slim. And then considering the mentality of the younger generation regarding these issues, actually expect the opposite.
Originally Posted by westcoastwaves
I was referring to choices in general, not just abortion.
I do not think that laws should be implemented to take away a woman's right to choose
Originally Posted by cehua
Anything taking away anybody's right to choose anything (in this country) is against what is what founded on.
Originally Posted by GuardianB
I agree, but it is headed that way.....
Originally Posted by cehua
I agree. There's a slippery slope and we're headed straight for it.
Originally Posted by PartyHair
I really don't think we're headed that way. A lot of Bush fans might suupport that and there's been talk about overturning Roe v. Wade, but the liklehood of that happening IMO is really slim. And then considering the mentality of the younger generation regarding these issues, actually expect the opposite.
Originally Posted by westcoastwaves
I was referring to choices in general, not just abortion.
Originally Posted by cehua
Me too. (Here, cehua, I'll just follow you around this thread agreeing with you. )
*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*

Rock on with your bad self.

*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*

Be excellent to each other. ~ Abraham Lincoln

*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*
Ah. I was more quoting Party Hair, but considering that's what you meant, then she probably was responding to that. In that vein then, ITA
“It was only a sunny smile and little it cost in the giving but like morning light it scattered the night and made the day worth living.” - F. Scott Fitzgerald

3B ■ Medium/Course ■ High Porosity
It is my understanding that pro-choice does not mean pro-abortion.
Originally Posted by cehua
I can understand the difference. Just like it ticks me off when pro-lifers are labeled as anti-choice. I know it's all semantics, but pro-life and anti-choice just are not synonomous. KWIM?
A lot of Bush fans might support that and there's been talk about overturning Roe v. Wade, but the liklehood of that happening IMO is really slim. And then considering the mentality of the younger generation regarding these issues, actually expect the opposite.
Originally Posted by westcoastwaves
Please keep in mind that it was the "older generation" that fought to get Roe V. Wade enacted in the first place.

In addition, being pro-choice because and working to keep abortion legal are two different things.

If the "younger generation" wants to keep Roe V. Wade enacted (and believe me, it's not so iron-clad as you think) then then that "younger generation" better actually get out and vote.

They were projected to be voting in droves during the last election and it just didn't happen.


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A lot of Bush fans might support that and there's been talk about overturning Roe v. Wade, but the liklehood of that happening IMO is really slim. And then considering the mentality of the younger generation regarding these issues, actually expect the opposite.
Originally Posted by westcoastwaves
Please keep in mind that it was the "older generation" that fought to get Roe V. Wade enacted in the first place.

In addition, being pro-choice because and working to keep abortion legal are two different things.

If the "younger generation" wants to keep Roe V. Wade enacted (and believe me, it's not so iron-clad as you think) then then that "younger generation" better actually get out and vote.

They were projected to be voting in droves during the last election and it just didn't happen.
Originally Posted by Springcurl
I agree about the needing to get out and vote then idea. Living in a more liberal state might make me feel this more strongly. What I was thinking about was back in highschool a couple years ago, in one of my classes we worked on a project where how many people supported abortion came out, and it was nearly everybody. I realise that it's the now middle aged generation that really pushed Roe V. Wade. I agree that actually working to keep it legal may lack compared to how many people passively support it in the younger generation, but not to the extent that working to make it illegal is there.
“It was only a sunny smile and little it cost in the giving but like morning light it scattered the night and made the day worth living.” - F. Scott Fitzgerald

3B ■ Medium/Course ■ High Porosity
Roe v. Wade will never, and I mean never, be overturned (just mho, obviously). Seriously, if it ever gets overturned, I'll eat my hat. I think the overturning of Roe v. Wade is a fairy tale that both sides--pro and con--tell to keep their base support energized.

Plus, overturning Roe v. Wade would not automatically make abortion illegal. Under our Constitution, states would simply be able to decide for themselves what laws they want to enact. That means that at least 2/3 of a state's House and 2/3 of their Senate would vote to outlaw abortion, and their Governor would then sign that bill into law and not veto it. Very, very few states are conservative enough to make this happen (maybe Wyoming and Nebraska but that's it...and that likely wouldn't last as the fury of their constituents would descend upon them).

IMO, I think that both sides need to stop focusing this question only in terms of legality and start taking a broader view. There are many things (better health care for women and children, strong economic safety net, raises in the minimum wage, affordable childcare, availbility of birth control and sex ed classes that focus on getting teens to use it, etc.) that I think both sides can get behind. Not only will these things improve overall quality of life for women, but they will go a long way toward reducing the abortion rate, which I think is a very worthy goal. This debate is dominated by hardliners on both sides who are really out of the majority, but they get the press because they talk the loudest. Most of us hold a common sense position that says abortion is a sad choice and we should do everything we can to reduce the number of women who are put in that situation. However, we oppose laws that make desperate women into criminals.

On the other issue, I am very anti-death penalty.
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I'm anti-abortion but pro-choice, so I can't really vote in this poll.
Originally Posted by NetG

I don't get it. I have pro-choice options up there. I used the terms "anti-abortion" to stay away from the "pro-life" label, which I personally don't like when describing someone who is anti-abortion.
Originally Posted by Springcurl
Same here. I simply voted with the the pro-choice/anti-capital punishment option because it best describes my opinions on the whole. What I mean when I say that I am anti-abortion but pro-choice is basically that I don't really care for abortion (who really is pro-abortion anyway? I hate it when pro-lifers use that label for pro-choice proponents), but I don't think that it should be illegal. I think that the organism being destroyed during the abortion procedure is a human being, I hope I am never faced with a decision that involves me getting an abortion, but I think that allowing the option to be out there is definitely the lesser evil since two human lives are at risk during back alley abortions instead of just one. I simply believe that what is or is not moral should not necessarily govern what is or is not legal.
With your feet in the air and your head on the ground
Try this trick and spin it, yeah
Your head will collapse
If there's nothing in it
I worked for a campaign consulting firm last summer and fall and we had a high-profile reproductive rights group as a client [you know the one]. The firm conducted focus groups to figure out how best to address key issues with women and motivate them to get to the polls.

Almost all the women in the groups were pro-choice -- something like 8 in 10. However, the majority of them were were also planning to vote for Bush. Further testing revealed that almost all of them were completely unaware that Bush was the 'pro-life' candidate.

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